Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

[Crazy_Ivan80]

Scientists shockingly unearth the secret that bears shit in woods.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/media/twitter-account-suspected-of-being-part-of-russian-disinformation-campaign/news-story/ad128e22fd4c3bf6c38d18526d68de42


TLDR : brexit is a subversion of democracy. Leavers are dancing to the kremlins tune.

So every election that doesn't go the way the left wants = OMG TEH RUSSIANS DID IT

Labour wasn't exactly for remain either...

[derspiess]

So every election that doesn't go the way the left wants = OMG TEH RUSSIANS DID IT

You do not think Putin funds political groups in the West to undermine our political processes?

I'm sure he does (and it's not like Russia is the only country trying to influence others' elections).  Question is, how effective is it?

[Crazy_Ivan80]

So every election that doesn't go the way the left wants = OMG TEH RUSSIANS DID IT

You do not think Putin funds political groups in the West to undermine our political processes?

I'm sure he does (and it's not like Russia is the only country trying to influence others' elections).  Question is, how effective is it?

well, Trump is in the White House fucking things up. So pretty effective

[Jacob]

I'm sure he does (and it's not like Russia is the only country trying to influence others' elections).  Question is, how effective is it?

Well, Trump as President and Brexit has definitely severely set back the coherence of the West. There are definitely links between Russian money and Trump, and Russian money and Brexit. To what degree that's been the real difference maker is hard to ascertain with current publicly available information, but the pattern is definitely there (and is replicated across Europe as well).

[derspiess]

I did find this: http://www.politico.eu/article/graphics-how-the-uk-voted-eu-referendum-brexit-demographics-age-education-party-london-final-results/

BY PARTY VOTED IN THE 2015 GENERAL ELECTION

UKIP: 93% Leave, 7% Remain
Conservative: 57% Leave, 43% Remain
Labour: 31% Leave, 69% Remain
Lib Dems: 27% Leave, 73% Remain

[Valmy]

So every election that doesn't go the way the left wants = OMG TEH RUSSIANS DID IT

I was not aware it was only the left that was against disastrous idiocy that clearly also helped Russian interests.

[Valmy]

I'm sure he does (and it's not like Russia is the only country trying to influence others' elections).  Question is, how effective is it?

Pretty effective. They are getting pro-Putin idiots elected all over Europe.

[Richard Hakluyt]

Much more of and old/young, educated/uneducated, yokel/metropolitan thing than right/left. Though the right does seem eager to monopolise the glory/ordure that will result from the decision.

It seems that most of the whining negative reaction from the referendum is coming from the left.  So forgive my ignorance if that skewed my perception.

So there really wasn't any differentiation between left/right for leave/remain voters?

Well the tories are in power so it is actually Labour's job to point out that they are making a mess of things.

Labour's vote in the Midlands and North includes a vast contingent of social conservatives; people who would probably vote Republican if they were Americans. Their leftism mainly consists of wanting to tax the rich and have the money spent on the working class; plus they just hate the tories.

[Josquius]

Brexit is at the core very solidly a hard right/far right position.
Support for brexit split down the middle of the Conservative party with pretty much  everyone left of there being pro remain and everyone right of there being pro leave.
There are exceptions of course. The loony left that are anti anything for example.
But generally what made brexit was the misinformation put out by by the right wing media for the past 3 decades or more combined with a campaign of deliberate confusion and misinformation by the leave campaign and fake news by anti demographic groups.
When the margin in the referendum is so paper thin as the one we enjoyed with less educated people who stand to lose the most from a leave victory making the difference.... Then it isn't too much of a leap to suspect stuff like kremlin trolls and psychological warfare specialists made the difference.

[Tamas]

I am just going to ignore how Tyr is ignoring Corbyn's painfully obvious pro-Brexit stance.


I saw May this morning from Japan talking about how she is a fighter and she will run in the next election. Her body language and mannerism indicates she is inches away from a nervous breakdown.

[Josquius]

I am just going to ignore how Tyr is ignoring Corbyn's painfully obvious pro-Brexit stance.


I saw May this morning from Japan talking about how she is a fighter and she will run in the next election. Her body language and mannerism indicates she is inches away from a nervous breakdown.

He personally might fall under the loony left that I mentioned.
There's also the issue of fossils in the labour party who think it's 1967. Labour leave idiots always come up with quotes and pictures from the first referendum to try and claim brexit as the natural left wing position.

And yes.
May has been constantly banging her head against a brick wall for the past year. It is taking its toll.

[Zanza]

For years the EU bent over backwards to please Britain. Now you ask for 'flexibility'?
GUY VERHOFSTADT
CHIEF BREXIT NEGOTIATOR OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT

Writing in the Telegraph this week, former Conservative leader William Hague accused the EU of giving David Davis and his team the "runaround" and showing entrenched inflexibility with regards to British membership of the EU, David Cameron's renegotiation and the current Brexit talks. In Brussels this week, Mr Davis doubled down on these calls for more flexibility. But the facts do not support this mantra.

Since the UK joined the EU, it has enjoyed a bespoke form of membership that is unique. An opt-out from the euro, but banker to the Eurozone. An opt-out from Schengen, but access to the security databases linked to it. A blanket opt-out from Justice and Home Affairs, with the possibility to opt back into the most effective crime-fighting measures. The list goes on.

Lord Hague implied that the EU forced the UK out by refusing to agree to every one of Mr Cameron's renegotiation requests. But I was in the room at the time of the renegotiation and substantial additional exceptions were offered – a new special status of EU membership, with an opt-out from the core principle of "ever closer union" and an emergency brake on benefits for EU workers. I even offered to work with the UK to develop a new form of associate EU membership, but UK ministers rejected it, as they argued that it would mean losing the UK's seat at the top table. If this is not showing flexibility, I do not know what is.

After the referendum, we return full circle, only this time UK ministers seem to want to devise a new customs union and seek to recreate all of the EU's structures, in order to continue to benefit from the best elements of the EU, without it being called the EU. This is not serious, fair or even possible given the negotiating time remaining – now significantly limited by the UK's own decision to call a general election after the triggering of Article 50. The UK has informed us it is leaving, which we regret – but all we have ever asked for is that this disruptive decision is implemented in an orderly fashion and that we first agree to the divorce before planning a new future together.

Lord Hague quoted Yanis Varoufakis – an unlikely guru – and used the example of Greece to suggest EU institutions are treating the UK in a comparable manner. The British Government was adamant that no UK money be used to help Greece and I do not recall the UK challenging the position of EU finance ministers towards Mr Varoufakis at that time.

It's time for UK politicians to be more honest about the complexities Brexit creates and for them to recognise that other governments also have obligations to their own taxpayers. The EU can be bureaucratic but, from day one, the EU-27, the European Commission and the Parliament have been fully transparent about their negotiating positions and mandates. It is as if we are now told we are too efficient. It is in the interests of the EU for us to secure a close relationship, but we must first agree a methodology for the settling of accounts, secure the rights of EU citizens in the UK, and have a frank discussion about the Irish border. This is not a ploy to derail talks, but an inevitable consequence of the Brexit decision. It's time for UK politicians to be more honest about the complexities Brexit creates and for them to recognise that other governments also have obligations to their own taxpayers.

The discussion papers rolled out by the UK over the summer are helpful and welcome, but only a more serious engagement with the financial consequences of Brexit and the other divorce issues will unlock discussions about the future relationship, which I hope will be a close one. Given the current pace of talks there is a real danger that sufficient progress will not be made by October. It would be a very risky strategy to burn negotiating time now in the hope that individual EU leaders will ride to the rescue; it was EU governments who defined Michel Barnier's negotiating mandate.

As the costs of Brexit become clearer, I have no doubt the hardliners who promised the British people utopia will once again seek to blame Brussels for a lack of progress in the talks. But is a further poisoning of the atmosphere really in Britain's interest? Our continued relationship is too important for our citizens and our firms to be jeopardised by dramatic political gestures. A divorce is never easy, but a strong future partnership is in the best interest of us all.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/08/31/years-eu-bent-backwards-please-britain-now-ask-flexibility/

[Crazy_Ivan80]

Never ever believe a word Verhofstadt says. Ever. If he happens to be right, it's by sheer luck and happenstance, not by design.

[Josquius]

In this case "Well duh" is in order

[The Brain]

LEAVE BRITAIN ALONE!!!11