Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

[HVC]

Would you still be pro forced volunteering if you still fell in the age bracket?

[Zanza]

Forced volunteering is something that could be rolled out for all age groups, no? Or you could make them pay mone, and call it taxes.

[Richard Hakluyt]

I think the service should start with the oldest people who did not do national service, abolished in 1960,and work it's way down through the age cohorts. In addition the length of service should be proportionate to a person's wealth, those who have gained the most from the protection of the British state should serve the longest.

[The Brain]

How much demand is there in the UK for totally unskilled labor?

[Sheilbh]

Would you still be pro forced volunteering if you still fell in the age bracket?

Yeah I wouldn't entirely oppose that either. But I have recently been thinking of volunteering and becoming a trustee (they're looking) for a local charity

It's one weekend a month over a year. The way I'd do it (given that we're keeping kids in school to 18 now) is basically a volunteering month after exams - a bit like a slightly longer, more useful version of work experience. Worst case scenario it's as useless as work experience but with a positive social impact.

Edit; It's pitched as national service, but it's not . As Torsten Bell puts it, it's basically mandatory Duke of Edinburgh award without the camping.
I think given the concerns people have about atomisation, and particularly the isolation of young men - I'm not sure some form of mandatory volunteering scheme should be totally written off particularly if you could use it for people to meet others they wouldn't normally (for example the social visits to the elderly or people in hospital long term etc) or if it's something that matches that persons interests.

I wouldn't be surprised if Labour dump the military but and have this as a policy in their 2028 manifesto.

[HVC]

I just don't like state coerced  labour. Might as well put the darker kids out working in the feild volunteer schemes, since they're less likely to get sunburned

[Tamas]

I am sorry but you clearly have no (second hand) experience in how things work when you are forced to be "volunteering" or doing military training.

And you sound EXACTLY like the people arguing to keep conscription in Hungary. It's good to build character, community etc. Nonsense. That was coming from people who led such pathetic lives that the biggest change in their birth-to-death scenery was the 1-2 years spent in the barracks.

Forced anything doesn't work. What kind of a anti-atomisation community building would it achieve? That a young kid is forced to spend a year in their local community when they do NOT want to? Yeah if that's not gonna' result in more engagement with their locals I don't know what will.

But I agree with the others if we are so keen on this let's introduce it to everyone, and see support for it melt away in an instant.

Parties announcing policies is kind and then people choosing (including whether to believe them) is kind of how elections work, no?

Sure but I have lost count of how many fire-and-forget "policies" we have heard since Johnson came around.

[Tamas]

I just don't like state coerced  labour. Might as well put the darker kids out working in the feild volunteer schemes, since they're less likely to get sunburned

Oh yeah I forgot that one, I bet this would result in some pretty bad optics as the white community/charity leads would be commandeering around all the Black/Asian kids. 

[The Brain]

Is the concept based on the 1930s German Arbeitsdienst?

[Josquius]

I could perhaps see the case for it as something mandatory for NEETs - giving them a wage for it too. But if you've already got something going on in life it's just a pain in the arse that will help nobody.

I just don't like state coerced  labour. Might as well put the darker kids out working in the feild volunteer schemes, since they're less likely to get sunburned

Oh yeah I forgot that one, I bet this would result in some pretty bad optics as the white community/charity leads would be commandeering around all the Black/Asian kids. 

I think I'm missing something here
Was that seriously said by someone?

[Sheilbh]

Is the concept based on the 1930s German Arbeitsdienst?

What is it in Swedish?
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/jan/19/sweden-young-people-national-service-civic-duty-nato-war

The Tories have literally pointed to similar schemes being (re-)introduced in Sweden, France and Denmark in the last few years or the way it works in Finland and people are on about Nazi Germany and chattel slavery

It's a less militarised defence focused version of that. And an idea previously floated by such hard right radicals as David Lammy, Rory Stewart or the Resolution Foundation. I think it might need to be a bit more defence and civil defence focused personally given what's going on in Europe and the likelihood of increased climate events which I think will require more from government on civil response in the long term (and I think this could complement it).

I am certain it would work like work experience - you're responsible for finding your own placement and only if you can't/don't would you end up possibly being told to do something you don't really want to do.

[Sheilbh]

Incidentally on the Reform haven't picked lots of candidates, pointed out by Owen Winter that currently the Tories are behind the Greens and Reform in choosing candidates which suggests they've not really stolen a march on anyone:

Wow, since I posted this someone clearly updated the Green Party candidates:

Labour - 573 (+15)
Green (GPEW + Scottish Greens) - 551 (+147)
Lib Dem - 483 (+12)
Reform UK - 469 (+1)
Conservative - 368 (+14)
Workers Party - 162 (+6)
SDP - 98 (-)
SNP - 56 (-)
Independent - 54 (-)

[Tamas]

I could perhaps see the case for it as something mandatory for NEETs - giving them a wage for it too. But if you've already got something going on in life it's just a pain in the arse that will help nobody.

I just don't like state coerced  labour. Might as well put the darker kids out working in the feild volunteer schemes, since they're less likely to get sunburned

Oh yeah I forgot that one, I bet this would result in some pretty bad optics as the white community/charity leads would be commandeering around all the Black/Asian kids. 

I think I'm missing something here
Was that seriously said by someone?

Well if you are forced to volunteer then what else would happen than taking orders at some place you don't want to be at?

[Josquius]

Local projections seem to have reform second basically everywhere with the tories usually in 4th.
Which is surprising

[Tamas]

Local projections seem to have reform second basically everywhere with the tories usually in 4th.
Which is surprising

I mean with what Tory "policies" have been, if you still support them, what's the point of not going straight for Reform?