Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

[HVC]

Recruiters main benefit, again in my feild, is that they read resumes for you or have employee contacts. Saves you from reading 100s of indeed resumes (people don't even read descriptions, they just spam resumes. Yes I hate indeed). And HR is useless because they don't actually know enough to make valid decisions. So it falls on managers. I'd happily pay the 5-8% to get my time back. Plus most have a replacement guarantee for a certain time frame. I can't recall the exact time. A month maybe? So if they're really bad you have some coverage.

[crazy canuck]

Also I think except for the very top level, recruiters in general don't have a great reputation - but are probably necessary/helpful.

When I was in a law firm I'd say I got a call from a recruiter at least twice a week. No idea how many were being hired to secretly get rid of me v roles around and about.

This, I had to laugh at the post suggesting recruiters would be thinking about their reputation.

[Josquius]

Also I think except for the very top level, recruiters in general don't have a great reputation - but are probably necessary/helpful.

When I was in a law firm I'd say I got a call from a recruiter at least twice a week. No idea how many were being hired to secretly get rid of me v roles around and about.

This, I had to laugh at the post suggesting recruiters would be thinking about their reputation.

Recruiters definitely consider their reputation as this is what helps them get more business. From being involved in recruitment processes I've definitely heard it said certain recruiters are decent vs. others being various levels of awful.

And yes. HR are fucking awful. Getting past the HR gatekeeper is always a challenge.

[crazy canuck]

Also I think except for the very top level, recruiters in general don't have a great reputation - but are probably necessary/helpful.

When I was in a law firm I'd say I got a call from a recruiter at least twice a week. No idea how many were being hired to secretly get rid of me v roles around and about.

This, I had to laugh at the post suggesting recruiters would be thinking about their reputation.

Recruiters definitely consider their reputation as this is what helps them get more business. From being involved in recruitment processes I've definitely heard it said certain recruiters are decent vs. others being various levels of awful.

And yes. HR are fucking awful. Getting past the HR gatekeeper is always a challenge.

In my experience your assertion is not accurate.  Recruiters routinely inflate the quality and work history of those they are marketing to employers.

[Sheilbh]

And on the other side, the nature of the role on offer. They are estate agents of souls

[Josquius]

I'm not saying the decent ones are a large number or anything. Most I've encountered on the candidate side are certainly various levels of shit.
In Japan recruiting is basically the main escape route from teaching and few last longer than a few months (it's a trap).
But a few managers I've known have recruiters they would  recommend and go to frequently, decent ones do exist apparently.

[Tonitrus]

And yes. HR are fucking awful. Getting past the HR gatekeeper is always a challenge.

It always fascinates me (maybe because I've never dealt with them, being a government slave) that HR is talked about almost as if they are an entity independent of the company they work for.   

If a company has fucking awful HR...isn't that company responsible and thus also fucking awful?

[HVC]

And yes. HR are fucking awful. Getting past the HR gatekeeper is always a challenge.

It always fascinates me (maybe because I've never dealt with them, being a government slave) that HR is talked about almost as if they are an entity independent of the company they work for.   

If a company has fucking awful HR...isn't that company responsible and thus also fucking awful?

People hate HR because they work fir the company, not the employee.

In the context of hiring they're bad because they don't really know what's a good resume vs a bad one. They don't really know what roles entail.

[The Brain]

Cal is great.

[garbon]

And yes. HR are fucking awful. Getting past the HR gatekeeper is always a challenge.

It always fascinates me (maybe because I've never dealt with them, being a government slave) that HR is talked about almost as if they are an entity independent of the company they work for.   

If a company has fucking awful HR...isn't that company responsible and thus also fucking awful?

People hate HR because they work fir the company, not the employee.

In the context of hiring they're bad because they don't really know what's a good resume vs a bad one. They don't really know what roles entail.

I don't think anyone in the company works for the employee...bar maybe the employee.

Though I do think naive, junior employees often think HR is there to help them.

[Josquius]

And yes. HR are fucking awful. Getting past the HR gatekeeper is always a challenge.

It always fascinates me (maybe because I've never dealt with them, being a government slave) that HR is talked about almost as if they are an entity independent of the company they work for.   

If a company has fucking awful HR...isn't that company responsible and thus also fucking awful?

It'd be a bit much to expect recruitment to be an expert in every aspect of the business, especially if its a niche.
It is a bit of a bad sign about how recruiting works in a company that HR gets to be a blocker before someone with a clue has a look. But then recruiting isn't something most people will have much to do with at all in a company.

Though must be said like recruiters, though more common even, decent HR people who actually do  try to help employees definitely exist. I've known a few good HR people over my career who'll push the letter of rules in employees favour and such things. Sadly in my current workplace they seem to be awful.

[crazy canuck]

And yes. HR are fucking awful. Getting past the HR gatekeeper is always a challenge.

It always fascinates me (maybe because I've never dealt with them, being a government slave) that HR is talked about almost as if they are an entity independent of the company they work for.   

If a company has fucking awful HR...isn't that company responsible and thus also fucking awful?

People hate HR because they work fir the company, not the employee.

In the context of hiring they're bad because they don't really know what's a good resume vs a bad one. They don't really know what roles entail.

I don't think anyone in the company works for the employee...bar maybe the employee.

Though I do think naive, junior employees often think HR is there to help them.

Well, you are correct that everybody in fact works for the company, that's rather simplistic when thinking about the role that HR plays within a successful company. A good HR department will not just do the bidding of the operations side od the business, but will both reduce legal liability and increase productivity and reduce turnover by helping to company engage in best employment practices.

If the HR group is good at what it does, employees will naturally view HR as being helpful to them.  And might even view HR as working in their interests.

[garbon]

If the HR group is good at what it does, employees will naturally view HR as being helpful to them.  And might even view HR as working in their interests.

Yes but that is how junior employees can screw themselves up. They forget that they aren't mates with HR and are a little too liberal in sharing their complaints, agitating for must haves without recognising that they don't have strict confidentiality with HR - and most of what they say will be repeated higher up in the business.

I think HR can be helpful for managers and up but for a junior, HR is best kept at arm's length.

[Jacob]

HR is a useful tool that solves a bunch of problems. The challenge for junior folks is that they often misunderstand the set of problems HR is intended to solve, which can cause new problems for themselves and others.

[crazy canuck]

If the HR group is good at what it does, employees will naturally view HR as being helpful to them.  And might even view HR as working in their interests.

Yes but that is how junior employees can screw themselves up. They forget that they aren't mates with HR and are a little too liberal in sharing their complaints, agitating for must haves without recognising that they don't have strict confidentiality with HR - and most of what they say will be repeated higher up in the business.

I think HR can be helpful for managers and up but for a junior, HR is best kept at arm's length.

Yes, sorry - I see now that is what you were saying.  I agree entirely.