Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

[The Larch]

In part I think it is counter-intuitively that since 2010 at least MPs have become better at and more focused on being good constituency MPs, acting as an emergency service/social services for distressed constituents

Then why isn't local government strengthened so that MPs don't have to deal with that kind of menial topics?

[Josquius]

In part I think it is counter-intuitively that since 2010 at least MPs have become better at and more focused on being good constituency MPs, acting as an emergency service/social services for distressed constituents

Then why isn't local government strengthened so that MPs don't have to deal with that kind of menial topics?

Because the major cities have a horrible habit of voting labour.

[The Larch]

An Essex pub, an unexpected front of the culture wars.

Essex pub landlady replaces golliwog doll collection that was seized by police
Benice Ryley plans to display new dolls despite police investigation into an alleged hate crime



The landlady of a pub whose collection of golliwog dolls was confiscated by police has assembled replacements, which she plans to display in defiance of a continuing investigation.

Last week four Essex police officers and a trainee seized all the dolls on show in the White Hart Inn in Grays as part of an investigation into an alleged hate crime.

The dolls divide opinion in Grays. On Tuesday some pub regulars turned up to show support, but others expressed their fury. The pub's landlady, Benice Ryley, 62, refuses to accept they are racist.

Clutching an armful of the dolls, including three that have been donated by supporters, she said: "I'm going to put them back."

She added: "I'm getting a notice printed saying 'We've got gollies on display, if you find this offensive please don't come in'. If they don't like them they can walk out the door."

The pub's CCTV footage showed a man entering the pub on 1 March complaining about the dolls. "The police told me he was the victim of an alleged hate crime," Ryley said.



The pub also received a complaint about the dolls in 2018. Ryley said: "The police was not interested then. So why are they interested now? And why would they come and seize my dolls."

Ryley's husband, Chris, who is the pub's licensee, is due to be interviewed by police next month when he returns from the couple's holiday home in Turkey.

"It depends what my husband says in the interview whether we are going to be done or not," Ryley said.

She added: "It's a complete waste of police time. When they were here something came through on the police radio and they said sorry we can't attend that at the moment."

Ryley said the pub has been sent several replacement dolls from supporters with more on the way. "We've had loads and loads of support. When people started complaining in 2018 I was sent more gollies in the post. Three have come in the last few days and there are two more in the post."

She also denies that the word 'wog' is racist. She said: "I won't use that word because I've been told not to. But I don't find that offensive."

Pub regular Mel Thompson said: "They're just harmless toys. I'm not offended by that part of their name. Everyone just calls them gollies, anyway."

Ryley is wary of media interest in the row. "I don't mind talking to you, but I won't go on TV because they'll set me up to be racist."

Tony Daly, who manages a nearby charity shop, said the dolls made his "blood boil" and said he was shocked they had been on display in such a diverse area.

He also plans to confront Ryley over the issue. He said: "I find them very offensive and I'll be going there to peacefully put my point across and to educate her. I grew up in Tottenham in the 70s when we fought against those kind of things. They used to call black people golliwogs. It's a racist symbol that says slavery to me and the black and white minstrels. It's so outdated and offensive to black people."

Ryley denied that she or her husband were racist. "I'm not a racist in any form." She confirmed that her husband had been photographed in a T-shirt from the far-right group Britain First. She said: "I don't think Chris is a supporter of Britain First, he was just wearing that shirt because it was convenient at the time."

The police raid prompted differing accounts of whether the home secretary, Suella Braverman, had rebuked the force over the action. On Tuesday the force insisted it had no official complaint from Braverman or her office, despite assertions from an adviser to the home secretary.

A spokesman for Essex police said: "The people who the home secretary would be in touch with in our force would be the deputy chief constable and the chief constable. Neither of them have had any contact with her. We have not had any contact that we would deem official with the Home Office." An adviser did ask for a briefing about the raid but there was no rebuke, the spokesman said.

Sunder Katwala, director of the integration thinktank British Future, said he was concerned by a post by Chris Ryley on Facebook. The 2016 post showed dolls hanging from a shelf in the bar alongside a comment by him saying, "They used to hang them in Mississippi years ago". Katwala said that Chris Ryley had referenced lynchings in Mississippi in connection to the pub's golliwogs collection in a Facebook post in 2016.

He said: "That shows a serious expression of racial hostility that is inappropriate to the holder of a licensed premise. The council or the police should find a way to stop that kind of display."

Chris Ryley has been approached for comment.

So, is the pub lady:

a) Thick as a brick.
b) Dellusional to the extreme.
c) Lying through her teeth.
d) A combination of all the previous.

[garbon]

If the FB post (I believe there was link to Twitter with screenshot) is real, c.

[Sheilbh]

I would go more the opposite. A problem with modern politics is it has become too big. Too much of a rock star this is how you win at life sort of thing.
This has led to huge numbers of people from the top schools deciding it's the path for them from an early age and naturally out connecting anyone from a modest background who at 40 decides they want to go into politics and make a change.

I don't think it is huge numbers compared to almost any other point in British history.

I think you'd have to be mad to want to be an MP. Just the amount of abuse you get - which social media has made worse - and the acid contempt the public have for politicians. I have a friend whose dad was an MP in the New Labour era and he remembers being a kid doing the shopping in town on the weekend and random people just coming up to his dad to have a go at him. Very occasionally, it'd be someone to thank him for some help he'd provided or say he was doing well. We've now added a channel for randoms from all over the world to do the same.

I don't think it's pereceived as "winning" at life - especially when the salary for an MP is lower than a junior associate in a city law firm or a consultant.

Not sure I'd agree there. Johnson did this for sure. A lot of working class and sub working class people eager to doff their cap for him in a way they weren't for a typical tory. His "tells it like it is" image really sells to some as much as it apalls others.

I don't think it's "tells it like it is" necessarily. He was never seen as some great truth-teller.

I think, as Daniel Finkelstein put it, when it worked Johnson was the laughing cavalier - he broke politics' fourth wall to wink at the public, or roll his eyes, or comment on the proceedings. I don't think it's coincidental that his rise is also the period of Alastair Campbell style, really rigid, drilled "line to take" discipline. He is as much a product of that as Ed Miliband doing an interview for 15 minutes and giving the same answer to every question because it's his line that day and they'll have to use one of the clips (unfortunately for him, they used all of them and did a story on comms ).

Then why isn't local government strengthened so that MPs don't have to deal with that kind of menial topics?

Again I absolutely think centralisation is a huge problem in England - and also Scotland where it's been led by the SNP so they can nationalise all issues and brand it as "Scottish" rather than at council level.

The short term is that councils have had their budgets slashed. A vast part of Osborne's cuts were to central funding for local councils.

Over the longer term, since the war, local government has diminished hugely - arguably the flipside of the poor MPs is that many local councillors are just on their first step to becoming MPs while previously there were serious local grandees. There's many drivers/forces that have moved us in that way. I think it's indicative of a wider problem that the British state is simultaneously too centralised, over-mighy and very weak. Ultimately it's been caused and exacerbated by governments of both parties at a very broad level I think national politicians are held accountable for local failings so they've meddled more, and there's a real dislike of "postcode lotteries"/different services or levels of services in different areas. See the National Health Service, the proposed National Care Service or National Education Service - obviously it's not a lottery it's the result of decisions by democratically elected councillors but people don't like it.

So, is the pub lady:

a) Thick as a brick.
b) Dellusional to the extreme.
c) Lying through her teeth.
d) A combination of all the previous.

They're racist. They had these dolls which are racist and have been perceived as racist for basically my entire life, he's been photoed in a Britain First T-shirt, has tonnes of anti-Sunak ("our Muslim PM" ) posts online, has associations with other Islamophobic far-right groups. They're bigots. The Mail (and Braverman) should have done their culture war due diligence.

Having said all that - I'm not sure it's a great use of five police officers' time. That feels like overkill. I'm not sure why this needed more than, say, a PC and the trainee. The legal ground is a racially aggravated public order offence (intentional harassment, distress or alarm) which is a summary offence and again I don't know that it justifies that number of police working the case.

[Josquius]

So, is the pub lady:

a) Thick as a brick.
b) Dellusional to the extreme.
c) Lying through her teeth.
d) A combination of all the previous.

I read the guardian article on this. Alarm bell after aladm bell to suggest d is the answer.

You have a collection of vintage golliwogs? Not necessarily racist. You have them on display in your pub? Nudging along but still not automatically racist.... But the associations with the edl, the reports from black neighbours, and putting up others and celebrating being anti woke...pff.

I don't think it's "tells it like it is" necessarily. He was never seen as some great truth-teller

Oh absolutely. Hence the quotes. "He tells it like it is" is a dog whistle for says ignorant shit that a lot of people believe to be true. I hear a lot of people say this.

I don't think it is huge numbers compared to almost any other point in British history.

I think you'd have to be mad to want to be an MP. Just the amount of abuse you get - which social media has made worse - and the acid contempt the public have for politicians. I have a friend whose dad was an MP in the New Labour era and he remembers being a kid doing the shopping in town on the weekend and random people just coming up to his dad to have a go at him. Very occasionally, it'd be someone to thank him for some help he'd provided or say he was doing well. We've now added a channel for randoms from all over the world to do the same.

I agree. Plus having to do politics for a living. It's by definition  a super toxic workplace.

But I do think you see far more elites going into politics these days and less examples of eg former postmen becoming MPs.

It's a full time career path which is setup in such a way to make it very hard to enter for those outside certain groups.

I don't think it's pereceived as "winning" at life - especially when the salary for an MP is lower than a junior associate in a city law firm or a consultant.

With the elites salary doesn't matter too much though. It's more about respect in certain circles and power. They make their money through investments and don't really have to worry about it when young as their parents have enough.

They're racist. They had these dolls which are racist and have been perceived as racist for basically my entire life

I recall around 1990 Robinsons jam stopped the badges?
Boy that annoyed me as a kid too young to understand they were racist.

[Sheilbh]

I agree. Plus having to do politics for a living. It's by definition  a super toxic workplace.

But I do think you see far more elites going into politics these days and less examples of eg former postmen becoming MPs.

It's a full time career path which is setup in such a way to make it very hard to enter for those outside certain groups.

I'm not sure - I think we're dangerously close to straying into Matt Goodwin "new elite" territory But I suppose I'd view becoming an MP as a way into the elite rather than the other way round.

Statistically the proportion of Tory MPs who went to private school has gone from about 75% in 1979 to 45% in 2019 and the proporition of Oxbridge graduates has gone from about 50% to 30% while their university educated proportion has gone from 70% to 85%. For Labour they're basically unchanged on private school and Oxbridge - they were at 20% in 1979 and still are. But unviersity educated has gone from 60% to 90%. Lib Dems are obviously smaller but Oxbridge is unchanged at around 30%, private school educated have gone from 55% to 40% and university educated have gone from 45% to 100%.

I think it is a huge problem that most people in the UK don't go to university - though we're aiming to get to 50%. And most voters didn't go to university but they are a tiny fraction of political representation. Personally, I think, particularly a problem for the Labour Party - set up by trade unions for the purpose of providing representation of labour in parliament - that it's very university educated and very councillor heavy in Parliament. There is a big fall in that period of people coming from a manual labour background - and also a decline in people coming from the professions (I suspect because second jobs are more difficult now given sitting times etc), while the number of people coming from "political" backgrounds has increased. Again it's particularly strong in Labour where, in 2019, 75% of new MPs were either previoiusly councillors, think tankers or lobbyists.

Looking back manual workers and "miscellaneous" professions (which included councillors, think tankers, political jobs) were both at about 20% of MPs in 1979. Manual workers are now under 5% and "miscellaneous" are now the largest group and almost 40%. As you say I think it's partly that it is perceived as a full-time job and a career path in its own right now - and also I think it takes a lot of effort and time and work, with a local part, to get selected as a candidate now. I suspect that political employers are more understanding of that. In the 70s there was more union control within Labour, but there was also less expectation that you try to be local. You had less need to prove your bona fides by turning up at every local party canvassing, constituency meeting etc.

Edit: Although I feel this is a wider issue where the routes to careeres for people without a degree are narrowing - it doesn't exist in the press any more, doesn't exist for teachers or nurses any more, there are plans to require police to have a degree etc. I'm not sure it's helpful especially as we're not Germany.

With the elites salary doesn't matter too much though. It's more about respect in certain circles and power. They make their money through investments and don't really have to worry about it when young as the it parents have enough.

I think you overestimate the independent wealth of MPs.

[The Larch]

Another Brexit side effect, this time harming artists.

German band may have been refused UK entry 'because they have day jobs'
Post-Brexit rules on touring under fire as it emerges Trigger Cut may have been turned away due to not being full-time musicians


A German punk rock band that was refused entry to the UK because of "opaque and confusing" post-Brexit rules may have been turned away at the border because they are not full-time professional musicians and have day jobs, the Guardian has learned.

Trigger Cut, a three-piece from Stuttgart, should have been on a seven-date tour of the UK this week, but were refused entry by UK border guards at Calais last Thursday.

Blaming "the Tories' mess over Brexit", Labour said such experiences not only penalised up-and-coming bands, but damaged UK music venues, which are already in "dire straits".

The UK-based music agent Ian Smith, who has been helping the band understand why they were turned away, said that although their paperwork was in order, they were refused entry after telling the border officer that they had other jobs back in Germany.

"Like many small bands, they said they all had other jobs to pay the rent – one of them is a landscape gardener – and that they did not earn much money from music," said Smith, who co-founded Carry On Touring and ukeartswork.info, which campaigns to help artists work in the EU and UK.

He said Trigger Cut were planning to enter the UK on the Permitted Paid Engagement (PPE) exemption route, which allows artists to tour the UK for up to a month without a visa.

But amid the small print is the proviso that anyone coming into the UK using PPE "cannot do paid work unrelated to your main overseas job or area of expertise".

Border guards are allowed to check not only that artists have invitations from a UK-based organisation or client – which Trigger Cut had from all seven venues –but also that "the paid engagement relates to your expertise, qualifications and main job".

Smith said the border guard also wrongly told the band that they needed a "certificate of sponsorship" (COS) from each venue that they were due to play.

"There is no clarity from the government on what artists need to provide in order to play the UK. The rules are opaque and confusing, even if English is your first language. The clause about not being allowed to do paid work unless it is related to your main overseas job will penalise so many artists who have to do other jobs to pay the rent," said Smith, who said Trigger Cut's experience might deter other foreign bands from playing in the UK.

Lucy Powell, the shadow culture secretary, said: "UK music venues are in dire straits, with the Tory cost of living crisis hitting audiences and soaring energy bills making it harder to keep the lights on. Yet instead of supporting venues to attract new talent, the Tories' mess over Brexit touring means musicians are being turned away at the border.

"The work musicians, performers, technicians and writers do is a huge part of our economy and local high streets. Labour would make Brexit work by negotiating an EU-wide touring agreement so that musicians and artists can tour the UK and EU."

[Tamas]

Another Brexit side effect

There are no such things. 

[Sheilbh]

Yeah and it's now an even bigger problem for UK musicians (and I believe especially, given the number, orchestras). Elton John's been campaigning on this because basically each of the 27 EU states have different rules, I believe 17 of them allow short-term visas for artists (which includes the big destinations) but different degrees of bureaucracy. As Elton John pointed out - it's fine for him, he can pay people to do the paperwork on a big tour. But for small, young bands it's now almost impossible to tour Europe as they used to.

I believe there was a solution on the table in the TCA negotiations which Johnson rejected. But that makes me think it'll be relatively easy to fix if the government wants to/once there's a new government. The PPE is a partial fix but I think less than what Johnson ruled out.

I think layered onto and separate to Brexit is this type of border force and Home Office cruelty and incompetence.

[Tamas]

basically each of the 27 EU states have different rules

Sovereignty is a bitch innit. 

[Sheilbh]

Well exactly - this is the sort of thing that Brexit means.

[Syt]

I thought Brexit means Brexit?

[Tamas]

I thought Brexit means Brexit?

Red, white and blue, too.

[Duque de Bragança]

I thought Brexit means Brexit?

Red, white and blue, too.

Is it the Brexit people voted for?