Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

[Tamas]

The anti-WFH stuff is crazy for many, many reasons. But I'm seeing this Johnson line getting dragged a lot online.....but based on me it's not totally not true

Jason Groves
@JasonGroves1
Boris Johnson on wfh culture: 'You spend an awful lot of time making another cup of coffee, getting up, walking very slowly to the fridge, hacking off a small piece of cheese, then walking very slowly back and then forgetting what it was you're doing...'

Compared to... Office workers hanging out in the kitchen area chatting and idling?

[Sheilbh]

Yeah - it's very specifically the hacking off a little bit of cheese that I recognise and I only do at home

[Josquius]

Yes. That sounds far more familiar of office work to me - ambling around the office chatting and killing time.

If one were to decide to take the anti wfh side for some reason the best way to go would be on fitness and the reduced exercise from sitting in front of a computer in your spare room all day.

[garbon]

Yes. That sounds far more familiar of office work to me - ambling around the office chatting and killing time.

If one were to decide to take the anti wfh side for some reason the best way to go would be on fitness and the reduced exercise from sitting in front of a computer in your spare room all day.

Spare room? Must be nice to have such luxuries.

[Richard Hakluyt]

Yes. That sounds far more familiar of office work to me - ambling around the office chatting and killing time.

If one were to decide to take the anti wfh side for some reason the best way to go would be on fitness and the reduced exercise from sitting in front of a computer in your spare room all day.

Spare room? Must be nice to have such luxuries.

Its grim up North, costs us a fortune to heat all that space 

[Sheilbh]

On housing - this is probably a pretty important factor (for us and Ireland) and I had no idea it was quite this extreme


Though really interesting that the Netherlands and Belgium are similarly very low compared to their neighbours so there must be something in North-West Europe that meant it was so much more houses v apartments.

The US, for comparison:

[Josquius]

This means apartments as in actual apartment blocks? Or would a house sub divided into flats count?

Odd for the low countries, not the impression I get there at all. I guess I've only been to cities though.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

People in Belgium are born with a brick in their stomach (and that is one of the few things that go for both north and south). As such owning a house with a garden is one of those investments every family tries to make. That and the fact that owning a house is a form of financial safeguard since the state is untrustworthy and corrupt.

[Richard Hakluyt]

From the point of view of a frequent visitor to the Netherlands there does seem to be a lot of fairly recent terraced houses over there.

[Sheilbh]

Seeing on Twitter a post-doc Oxford immunologist who is a research scientist moving into the private sector. Her explanation is that in the areas where she works, the alternative is sharing a flat well into her 30s.

I don't mind the private sector. But it seems like a real problem.

I keep coming back to that tens of billions of pounds of investment in life sciences in the UK hitting a bottle neck of no lab space and limiited future developments, cancelling the OxCam Arc, plus stories like this. It's a bit trite perhaps but I genuinely think the UK's productivity crisis - particularly the flat lining since the financial crisis - is in large part a building and housing crisis.

[The Larch]

Seeing on Twitter a post-doc Oxford immunologist who is a research scientist moving into the private sector. Her explanation is that in the areas where she works, the alternative is sharing a flat well into her 30s.

I don't mind the private sector. But it seems like a real problem.

I keep coming back to that tens of billions of pounds of investment in life sciences in the UK hitting a bottle neck of no lab space and limiited future developments, cancelling the OxCam Arc, plus stories like this. It's a bit trite perhaps but I genuinely think the UK's productivity crisis - particularly the flat lining since the financial crisis - is in large part a building and housing crisis.

I'd say it has more to do with the paltry salary that public sector researchers receive. It's super common over here, and we've built up the wazoo over the years.

[Sheilbh]

I'd say it has more to do with the paltry salary that public sector researchers receive. It's super common over here, and we've built up the wazoo over the years.

Yeah I think that's definitely part of it - although I've got a friend similar age as me (so mid-thirties) who is a post-doc researcher at one of the science universities in London. So there is a London uplift - but his salary is solid (and his pension is incredible, which is why he's been on strike a lot over the last year or two). He could, no doubt, earn a lot more in the private sector.

But he's just bought a place, and has a comfortable middle class life in London in a flat with a garden etc.

Oxford and Cambridge are just moving into a different world in terms of housing costs because there's no building. They are both more expensive than London now. They're moving into a different territory and it feels like the universities can't keep expanding their size without, at some point, needing more housing in what are basically two very small cities.

[The Larch]

I'd say it has more to do with the paltry salary that public sector researchers receive. It's super common over here, and we've built up the wazoo over the years.

Yeah I think that's definitely part of it - although I've got a friend similar age as me (so mid-thirties) who is a post-doc researcher at one of the science universities in London. So there is a London uplift - but his salary is solid (and his pension is incredible, which is why he's been on strike a lot over the last year or two). He could, no doubt, earn a lot more in the private sector.

But he's just bought a place, and has a comfortable middle class life in London in a flat with a garden etc.

Oxford and Cambridge are just moving into a different world in terms of housing costs because there's no building. They are both more expensive than London now. They're moving into a different territory and it feels like the universities can't keep expanding their size without, at some point, needing more housing in what are basically two very small cities.

Then I'd say that's a specific Oxbridge issue.

[Josquius]

Sharing a flat for your whole 20s is pretty normal all over the country I'd say. Not too many people who rent flats by themselves.
Not massively uncommon in your 30s even. Though by then it's been cut a lot by people buying and people in couples.

[Sheilbh]

Then I'd say that's a specific Oxbridge issue.

It is - a bit. I think I read similar issues with San Francisco and I imagine there are other similar hubs around the world.

They're two really good research universities, that have spawned in recent years a number of really successful innovative life sciences and tech companies. And they're really close together - we should be looking at agglomeration and how they can continue to grow so they can do more good research, but also it would have huge economic benefits.

The government cancelled OxCam Arc which was about linking them with Milton Keynes in the middles - lots of new space for labs, offices, light industry, housing plus vastly improved public transport links. Admittedly this is from the backers of the project but they estimated it would contribute 3% of GDP over the next couple of decades (for context, the BofE's estimate is that Brexit will knock off 4% of GDP over the next couple of decades) - but we're not doing it anymore. And I think that 3% could just be a start if we allowed it to become a proper metro-area. Plus what we should want is for them to continue to be incredible research universities attracting the best because there's a decent standard of living - as well as the work - rather than just becoming a finishing school that no-one without existing wealth can afford to live in.

It is just an Oxbridge issue - but it's also symptomatic of broader issues around growth and building and infrastructure that we have in this country.