Brexit and the waning days of the United Kingdom

[Sheilbh]

So if you get elected from Sinn Fein do you have to do anything at all?

I think they normally do the normal MP stuff like casework etc. Just don't go to Westminster - and their abstentionism is very well known so it's not like voters are a surprised.

Or just stay at home and you just spent all that money and time campaigning for nothing.

The most a party can spend on a constituency in an election is £30,000. Candidates can also spend £8,700 plus 6p or 9p per voter (slightly higher if it's a rural seat because it costs more to campaign). So it's not likely to be a huge cost - plus in Northern Ireland I imagine they're pretty good at directing their resources and not wasting money on a unionist stronghold like East Antrim.

Do you at least get the salary?

No. They get their expenses paid and use that to the full so they fund a constituency office etc. They're normally paid for the party. But because they never technically take their seats they don't get paid.

Or do they form their own Republican parliament somewhere in darkest Derry?

No. Abstentionism's a core and standard part of Republicanism since the (real) Sinn Fein were replacing the Irish Parliamentary Party. So they are getting a mandate for the position of not taking their seats. But in modern times Sinn Fein only decided to participate in Dail elections in the mid-80s because the hard line Republican take on the Dail would be that it is a partition parliament. And, obviously, a lot of time was spent in the peace process convincing Republicans to participate in Stormont at all.

[The Larch]

Sinn Fein must be one of the very few political parties to have representation in more than one country, or even the only one, I've just realized.

[Zanza]

Sinn Fein must be one of the very few political parties to have representation in more than one country, or even the only one, I've just realized.

Volt has seats in e.g. European Parliament (from Germany), Dutch parliament and some German regional/communal assemblies. Its deliberately pan-European.

[The Larch]

Sinn Fein must be one of the very few political parties to have representation in more than one country, or even the only one, I've just realized.

Volt has seats in e.g. European Parliament (from Germany), Dutch parliament and some German regional/communal assemblies. Its deliberately pan-European.

Ah, yes, but it's a different case as it's an explicitely trans-national party rather than a "traditional" one, and still on its infancy, but you're right.

[Sheilbh]

Sinn Fein must be one of the very few political parties to have representation in more than one country, or even the only one, I've just realized.

You're probably right - and until recently it had representation in the UK Parliament, Stormont, the Dail and the European Parliament which is probably one of the most represented parties in world politics

My only other thought would be that there could be some similar parties in the Balkans?

[Maladict]

Volt has seats in e.g. European Parliament (from Germany), Dutch parliament and some German regional/communal assemblies. Its deliberately pan-European.

They did surprisingly well in our elections, as newcomers. I have to say I was tempted as well, I might vote for them in the next euro elections. So strange we can only vote for our own country's parties in european elections.

[celedhring]

Catalan nationalist parties have "sister parties" in the Rousillon area (or, as they call it, Northern Catalonia), which run candidates in local elections - usually in coalition with local parties -, winning the odd small village, or a councillor or two in big cities (like Perpignan).

[Sheilbh]

Incidentally there were proposals a while ago that would have seen Sinn Fein/Northern Ireland less unique.

Cameron for a while tried to run the Tories in Northern IReland. The theory was to "normalise" Northern Irish politics by giving a mainstream choice connected to British politics rather than a purely sectarian party. Labour didn't follow suit because they have a sister party in Northern Ireland in the SDLP (moderate nationalists) just like the Tories used to have a kind of sister in the Ulster Unionist Party (moderate unionists).

I think there was talk of a similar move by some Irish parties - for Fianna Fail and Fine Gael to run candidates in Northern Irish elections and operate as all-Ireland parties. But I think it was felt that participating in Northern Irish elections was a step too far for the Irish parties - I think Fianna Fail have been negotiating with the SDLP to run joint candidates in local elections at least.

[Valmy]

No. Abstentionism's a core and standard part of Republicanism since the (real) Sinn Fein were replacing the Irish Parliamentary Party.

Well yeah and back in 1918 that was a powerful stance for immediate action but this is 102 years later...at some point doesn't it get a little ridiculous? I mean I guess the voters are clear they want no representation and no voice in determining laws that impact them.

It just seems a little stupid to declare that you care about republican values by intentionally disenfranchising yourself for 100 years. Refusing to participate in electoral democratic politics is the opposite of republican values.

Refusing to participate in free and fair elections because of nationalistic reasons strikes me as some damn fool thing that not even somebody in the Balkans would do. To me it makes the Republicans in Northern Ireland look like idiotic clowns irrationally wedded to ancient traditions, which is what monarchists should look like.

At least show up in Parliament and declare that you don't think this body should have any authority over Northern Ireland and abstain from any votes that do not directly impact Northern Irish voters. Something like that.

[celedhring]

Incidentally, are there any successful "expat parties" in Europe? Back when EU nationals were first allowed to vote in local elections, there was a project to found a German party in Mallorca, but it never went anywhere.

[The Larch]

Incidentally, are there any successful "expat parties" in Europe? Back when EU nationals were first allowed to vote in local elections, there was a project to found a German party in Mallorca, but it never went anywhere.

At the local level there are plenty in Spain in Mediterranean coast towns, I think.

[Admiral Yi]

Well yeah and back in 1918 that was a powerful stance for immediate action but this is 102 years later...at some point doesn't it get a little ridiculous? I mean I guess the voters are clear they want no representation and no voice in determining laws that impact them.

It just seems a little stupid to declare that you care about republican values by intentionally disenfranchising yourself for 100 years. Refusing to participate in electoral democratic politics is the opposite of republican values.

Refusing to participate in free and fair elections because of nationalistic reasons strikes me as some damn fool thing that not even somebody in the Balkans would do. To me it makes the Republicans in Northern Ireland look like idiotic clowns irrationally wedded to ancient traditions, which is what monarchists should look like.

At least show up in Parliament and declare that you don't think this body should have any authority over Northern Ireland and abstain from any votes that do not directly impact Northern Irish voters. Something like that.

I think it's very principled.  If your entire agenda is disassociation from a certain country it would be hypocritical to take part in shaping policies that, if you were to get your way, would no longer impact you.

[Sheilbh]

Incidentally, are there any successful "expat parties" in Europe? Back when EU nationals were first allowed to vote in local elections, there was a project to found a German party in Mallorca, but it never went anywhere.

Arguably some of the parties in the Turkish diaspora?

Well yeah and back in 1918 that was a powerful stance for immediate action but this is 102 years later...at some point doesn't it get a little ridiculous? I mean I guess the voters are clear they want no representation and no voice in determining laws that impact them.

It just seems a little stupid to declare that you care about republican values by intentionally disenfranchising yourself for 100 years. Refusing to participate in electoral democratic politics is the opposite of republican values.

But this is capital r Irish Republicanism, not republican values.

Also that link to 1918 (and earlier) is a huge part of Sinn Fein's legitimacy and claim that they are basically the only Republican party left who are still fighting for the position of a united Irish republic. All the other parties to some extent or other have reconciled themselves to partition and the presence of British forces in Ireland.

Edit: As I say it's only since the 80s that Sinn Fein have taken seats in the Dail because that was another partition parliament.

Refusing to participate in free and fair elections because of nationalistic reasons strikes me as some damn fool thing that not even somebody in the Balkans would do. To me it makes the Republicans in Northern Ireland look like idiotic clowns irrationally wedded to ancient traditions, which is what monarchists should look like.

They do participate in free and fair elections. They actually win seats in them on the basis of not taking their seats - that's what the people choose. It's not like people are surprised to discover that their MPs don't take their seats.

Though one of my favourite moments of how ignorant the rest of GB is about Northern Ireland was when Remainers were hoping Sinn Fein would take their seats to help defeat one of May's votes They've not taken their seats ever because of their ideology - they really don't care about Brexit enough to suddenly break that.

At least show up in Parliament and declare that you don't think this body should have any authority over Northern Ireland and abstain from any votes that do not directly impact Northern Irish voters. Something like that.

By participating you're acknowledging the authority of the British parliament though.

[Sheilbh]

So Cameron will be investigated over lobbying but it sounds like he'll basically get off on a technicality

David Cameron faces investigation into possible lobbying law breach
Lobbying registrar to look at ex-prime minister's work on behalf of Greensill Capital, according to reports
Kalyeena Makortoff Banking correspondent
@kalyeena
Thu 25 Mar 2021 09.44 GMT

A formal investigation has been launched into whether David Cameron breached lobbying laws through his work on behalf of Greensill Capital.

However, the Guardian understands the former prime minister will say he was acting as an employee for the firm. According to guidance by the register of consultant lobbyists, people who lobby on behalf of their own organisation do not need to declare themselves on the register.

Cameron has come under growing pressure to explain himself amid allegations that he contacted the chancellor, Rishi Sunak on his private phone last April while working as an adviser for Greensill.

At the time the firm, which collapsed earlier this month, was trying to secure access to hundreds of thousands of pounds of emergency Covid loans.

Granting Greensill access to the 100% government-backed Covid corporate financing facility (CCFF) would have meant bending the rules, since lenders are not meant to borrow money through the programme.

The registrar in charge of enforcing lobbying laws, has now launched a formal investigation into Cameron's alleged lobbying efforts.

A spokesperson for the registrar said on Thursday: "Following media reports, the registrar of consultant lobbyists is investigating whether Mr David Cameron has engaged in unregistered consultant lobbying. The registrar will not comment on this further while the investigation is ongoing."

UK rules require people who directly lobby ministers or senior officials on behalf of a third party to declare their efforts on an official government register for lobbyists. Breaching those rules can result in fines of up to £7,500 and in severe cases even criminal charges.

However, Cameron is expected to say he was a Greensill employee at the time, rather than a consultant.

Greensill administrators at Grant Thornton declined

Edit: Also - wut?

Kate Proctor
@Kate_M_Proctor
This is really happening...MP Charles Walker tells colleagues he is going to walk around London with a pint of milk as a protest over the coronavirus restrictions. He encourages others to do the same, perhaps those who fear the slide into authoritarianism.

[Barrister]

Sinn Fein must be one of the very few political parties to have representation in more than one country, or even the only one, I've just realized.

There's the good ole Communist Party.  There were national parties, but all linked through Comintern / Cominform (and all more-or-less controlled by Moscow).