Hillary vs Bernie

[Jacob]

It's fun to conspire.

If it stops being fun, try prune juice.

[Razgovory]

Vast Right Wing Conspiracy!

The problem with Mrs. Clinton quote was she assumed that Republicans might see fabricating evidence against her as a negative.  As it happened, Republicans happily adopted the mantle of conspiracy and continued fabricating scandals against her and her husband.  The average Republican was okay with it, sadly. 

[derspiess]

Or just B.

Isn't that a positive thing?

Of course.  Has been since 1997.  THANKS MEREDITH BROOKS

[DGuller]

I mean, personally I have the impression that that reputation is primarily the result of a decades long smear campaign by political opponents and media discomfort with powerful women. It's just an impression though, so I'm curious about the specifics that led you to that conclusion.

Can't point to anything specific now, but my view centered around the inside stories from the failed 2008 campaign.  The picture drawn rather consistently was of her being an ineffective manager who is rather unpleasant to deal with personally, and that this mismanagement style played into the failure of campaign to recognize fatal flaws in their strategy.  Basically, Hillary was the boss you don't dare deliver bad news to, you just don't.

[Eddie Teach]

Vast Right Wing Conspiracy!

The problem with Mrs. Clinton quote was she assumed that Republicans might see fabricating evidence against her as a negative.  As it happened, Republicans happily adopted the mantle of conspiracy and continued fabricating scandals against her and her husband.  The average Republican was okay with it, sadly.

The problem with Raz is that he sees tongue-in-cheek comments as evidence of a conspiracy.

[Razgovory]

Drawn by who?

[derspiess]

Vast Right Wing Conspiracy!

The problem with Mrs. Clinton quote was she assumed that Republicans might see fabricating evidence against her as a negative.  As it happened, Republicans happily adopted the mantle of conspiracy and continued fabricating scandals against her and her husband.  The average Republican was okay with it, sadly. 

Interesting theory.

[Razgovory]

Vast Right Wing Conspiracy!

The problem with Mrs. Clinton quote was she assumed that Republicans might see fabricating evidence against her as a negative.  As it happened, Republicans happily adopted the mantle of conspiracy and continued fabricating scandals against her and her husband.  The average Republican was okay with it, sadly.

The problem with Raz is that he sees tongue-in-cheek comments as evidence of a conspiracy.

When they claimed Hillary Murder Vince Foster was that tongue in cheek?  What about when Falwell produced the Clinton Chronicles was that tongue in cheek?  Were all those Benghazi hearings tongue in cheek?

[Eddie Teach]

When they claimed Hillary Murder Vince Foster was that tongue in cheek? 

Who are they?

[Razgovory]

When they claimed Hillary Murder Vince Foster was that tongue in cheek? 

Who are they?

The same people you claimed were speaking tongue-in-cheek.

[Eddie Teach]

Derspiess then.

[Jacob]

I mean, personally I have the impression that that reputation is primarily the result of a decades long smear campaign by political opponents and media discomfort with powerful women. It's just an impression though, so I'm curious about the specifics that led you to that conclusion.

Can't point to anything specific now, but my view centered around the inside stories from the failed 2008 campaign.  The picture drawn rather consistently was of her being an ineffective manager who is rather unpleasant to deal with personally, and that this mismanagement style played into the failure of campaign to recognize fatal flaws in their strategy.  Basically, Hillary was the boss you don't dare deliver bad news to, you just don't.

Interesting.

I just came across this the other day, written by a former speech writer of Obama's who was not a Hillary fan. It paints a rather different picture of Hillary, though it's obviously coming from a particular point of view:

I hear you're still not Ready for Hillary.

I get it. I didn't start off as her biggest fan either. During the 2008 campaign, I wrote plenty of less-than-complimentary words about Hillary Clinton in my role as Barack Obama's speechwriter. Then, a few weeks after the election, I had a well-documented run-in with a piece of cardboard that bore a striking resemblance to the incoming Secretary of State.

It was one of the stupider, more disrespectful mistakes I've made, and one that could have cost me a job if Hillary hadn't accepted my apology, which she did with grace and humor. As a result, I had the chance to serve in the Obama administration with someone who was far different than the caricature I had helped perpetuate.

The most famous woman in the world would walk through the White House with no entourage, casually chatting up junior staffers along the way. She was by far the most prepared, impressive person at every Cabinet meeting. She worked harder and logged more miles than anyone in the administration, including the president. And she'd spend large amounts of time and energy on things that offered no discernible benefit to her political future—saving elephants from ivory poachers, listening to the plight of female coffee farmers in Timor-Leste, defending LGBT rights in places like Uganda.

Most of all—and you hear this all the time from people who've worked for her—Hillary Clinton is uncommonly warm and thoughtful. She surprises with birthday cakes. She calls when a grandparent passes away. She once rearranged her entire campaign schedule so a staffer could attend her daughter's preschool graduation. Her husband charms by talking to you; Hillary does it by listening to you—not in a head-nodding, politician way; in a real person way.
This same story has repeated itself throughout Clinton's career: those who initially view her as distrustful and divisive from afar find her genuine and cooperative in person. It was the case with voters in New York, Republicans in the Senate, Obama people in the White House, and heads of state all over the world. There's a reason being America's chief diplomat was the specific job Obama asked Hillary to do—she has the perfect personality for it.

The rest of the article is here: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/02/26/why-electing-hillary-in-16-is-more-important-than-electing-obama-in-08.html

[Jacob]

The problem with Raz is that he sees tongue-in-cheek comments as evidence of a conspiracy.

Talking all kinds of heinous trash and then backing down with a "I was only kidding" is one of the oldest and weakest techniques in the book. Humour, and the somewhat related "I was only joking" fake humour can and often is wielded as a weapon.

[derspiess]

Derspiess then.

Yep.  In fact I broke the Vince Foster story. 

[derspiess]

That Jon Favreau needs to change his name so we don't confuse him with the cool one.