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Hillary vs Bernie

Started by Eddie Teach, January 31, 2016, 05:47:52 AM

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Say you're at the Iowa Democratic caucus- who do you vote for?

Sanders
31 (46.3%)
Clinton
25 (37.3%)
Littlefinger
5 (7.5%)
Sanders, but only to make it easier for GOP to win
2 (3%)
Clinton, but only to make it easier for GOP to win
0 (0%)
Write in for Biden :(
1 (1.5%)
Write in for Trump :wacko:
3 (4.5%)

Total Members Voted: 66

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garbon

#225
February 08, 2016, 01:34:50 PM
Otherwise the logic is a bit circular. We can't give money because there is no distinct political group to disperse funds to. Never you mind that we prevented your ancestors from exercising any political power.
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."

I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

Barrister

#226
February 08, 2016, 01:44:51 PM
If you go back to TNC's article "The Case for Reparations", he's not really asking for reparations due to slavery.

He's asking for reparations from Jim Crow laws, legal segregation, redlining.  All things that there are living people who were subject to those practices.  So determining who might be entitled to such reparations is somewhat easier than trying to trace descendants of slaves from 1865.
Posts here are my own private opinions.  I do not speak for my employer.

garbon

#227
February 08, 2016, 01:51:13 PM
Quote from: Barrister on February 08, 2016, 01:44:51 PM
If you go back to TNC's article "The Case for Reparations", he's not really asking for reparations due to slavery.

He's asking for reparations from Jim Crow laws, legal segregation, redlining.  All things that there are living people who were subject to those practices.  So determining who might be entitled to such reparations is somewhat easier than trying to trace descendants of slaves from 1865.

Fair enough.
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."

I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

Barrister

#228
February 08, 2016, 01:56:02 PM
Quote from: garbon on February 08, 2016, 01:51:13 PM
Quote from: Barrister on February 08, 2016, 01:44:51 PM
If you go back to TNC's article "The Case for Reparations", he's not really asking for reparations due to slavery.

He's asking for reparations from Jim Crow laws, legal segregation, redlining.  All things that there are living people who were subject to those practices.  So determining who might be entitled to such reparations is somewhat easier than trying to trace descendants of slaves from 1865.

Fair enough.

Not to say that the practicalities wouldn't still be daunting.  I'm pretty sure TNC doesn't just want to pay off a few octogenarians who couldn't get a mortgage back in the 1960s - but that "reparations" should be widely made to the descendants of such people.
Posts here are my own private opinions.  I do not speak for my employer.

garbon

#229
February 08, 2016, 01:59:32 PM
Certainly, I think even what he's asking for isn't something I'd support doing. But just agreeing that yeah it would make it 'relatively' easier than tracing to slavery.
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."

I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

alfred russel

#230
February 08, 2016, 02:56:04 PM
Quote from: Barrister on February 08, 2016, 01:44:51 PM

He's asking for reparations from Jim Crow laws, legal segregation, redlining. 

One of those things is not like the others.
They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

There's a fine line between salvation and drinking poison in the jungle.

I'm embarrassed. I've been making the mistake of associating with you. It won't happen again. :)
-garbon, February 23, 2014

Valmy

#231
February 08, 2016, 03:11:31 PM
Quote from: garbon on February 08, 2016, 01:34:50 PM
Otherwise the logic is a bit circular. We can't give money because there is no distinct political group to disperse funds to. Never you mind that we prevented your ancestors from exercising any political power.

Well that is a complication but that is not why we cannot/should not give money. I am sure we could come up with a criteria if we decided we were going to do it.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

The Brain

#232
February 08, 2016, 04:16:57 PM
Fight oppression shaming. :angry:
Women want me. Men want to be with me.

Razgovory

#233
February 08, 2016, 04:25:54 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 08, 2016, 03:11:31 PM
Quote from: garbon on February 08, 2016, 01:34:50 PM
Otherwise the logic is a bit circular. We can't give money because there is no distinct political group to disperse funds to. Never you mind that we prevented your ancestors from exercising any political power.

Well that is a complication but that is not why we cannot/should not give money. I am sure we could come up with a criteria if we decided we were going to do it.

If we are to compensate over Jim Crow or redlining that does sort of move a lot of the burden to the states.  It also makes it more difficult to find a culpable party, since many practices were custom, or extra legal.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Valmy

#234
February 08, 2016, 04:28:43 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 08, 2016, 04:25:54 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 08, 2016, 03:11:31 PM
Quote from: garbon on February 08, 2016, 01:34:50 PM
Otherwise the logic is a bit circular. We can't give money because there is no distinct political group to disperse funds to. Never you mind that we prevented your ancestors from exercising any political power.

Well that is a complication but that is not why we cannot/should not give money. I am sure we could come up with a criteria if we decided we were going to do it.

If we are to compensate over Jim Crow or redlining that does sort of move a lot of the burden to the states.  It also makes it more difficult to find a culpable party, since many practices were custom, or extra legal.

What if some boomer sued one of the former Jim Crow states in Federal Court? What would happen then?
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

Admiral Yi

#235
February 08, 2016, 04:44:36 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 08, 2016, 04:28:43 PM
What if some boomer sued one of the former Jim Crow states in Federal Court? What would happen then?

Passing a law that people in the future will consider a bad law is not actionable.

Valmy

#236
February 08, 2016, 04:51:14 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 08, 2016, 04:44:36 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 08, 2016, 04:28:43 PM
What if some boomer sued one of the former Jim Crow states in Federal Court? What would happen then?

Passing a law that people in the future will consider a bad law is not actionable.

Pretty sure plenty of people in the past also considered it a bad law. Anyway I was thinking the action would not be 'this law is stinky and it sucks to!' but more that it violated their civil rights.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

Razgovory

#237
February 08, 2016, 04:57:30 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 08, 2016, 04:28:43 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 08, 2016, 04:25:54 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 08, 2016, 03:11:31 PM
Quote from: garbon on February 08, 2016, 01:34:50 PM
Otherwise the logic is a bit circular. We can't give money because there is no distinct political group to disperse funds to. Never you mind that we prevented your ancestors from exercising any political power.

Well that is a complication but that is not why we cannot/should not give money. I am sure we could come up with a criteria if we decided we were going to do it.

If we are to compensate over Jim Crow or redlining that does sort of move a lot of the burden to the states.  It also makes it more difficult to find a culpable party, since many practices were custom, or extra legal.

What if some boomer sued one of the former Jim Crow states in Federal Court? What would happen then?

What do I look like, JR?  It just seems hard to get money because all the real estate guys in the state colluded to keep blacks in one spot 60 years ago, or that a black guy was lynched in the 1950's and the court didn't find anyone guilty of the crime.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

Admiral Yi

#238
February 08, 2016, 04:59:34 PM
Quote from: Valmy on February 08, 2016, 04:51:14 PM
Anyway I was thinking the action would not be 'this law is stinky and it sucks to!' but more that it violated their civil rights.

I'm pretty sure laws that get overturned on constititutional grounds never involve cash prizes.

Valmy

#239
February 08, 2016, 05:00:08 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on February 08, 2016, 04:57:30 PM
What do I look like, JR?  It just seems hard to get money because all the real estate guys in the state colluded to keep blacks in one spot 60 years ago, or that a black guy was lynched in the 1950's and the court didn't find anyone guilty of the crime.

It was meant to be an open question, not towards you specifically.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."
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