2016 - The Global Economic .... What?

[Eddie Teach]

You want more direct comparisons? Ok. http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Economy/GDP-per-capita-in-1950 2014 stats in previous link

1950-2014 increase in gdp per capita
China 614-13k ~20x
South Korea 876-35k ~40x
Taiwan 922-46k ~50x

These numbers are good, but these countries were well positioned for growth.

China looks better if you only look at numbers post 1980, but that ignores the fact it was the same regime before that. Also, economic growth is never gonna top stability as their primary motivator. When they're growing 10% a year, everyone's happy and stability is easy to maintain. But with a more mature economy that's no longer capable of such growth rates, they may act to repress growth in instances where it helps maintain order.

[DGuller]

If we look at China as a whole (and not just a handful of cities), China is a poor shithole. It used to be a really poor shithole. Because it has a massive number of people, this change has had a profound effect on the world economy.

I think everyone can agree on the above?

Of course.

[crazy canuck]

The argument I was responding to was essentially what has the Party done for China".  Go back and check your stats and compare where they were before the Party decided to begin the economic transformation and where they are now.

From what I could see, you were responding to and disagreeing with the argument that China still has ways to go.  And that argument was a very common conflation of GDP and GDP growth rates.  Yes, China as a country already has a lot of economic power (GDP), is still growing quickly (GDP growth rate), but still has ways to go when it comes to development (GDP per capita).

Go back then and re-read.  Good example of strawmen being created to backtrack on a rather silly initial statement.

I did.  You claimed China doesn't have a long way to go economically.

I didnt deny China has a way to go.  I said the rest of the world isnt doing so well economically either.

Unless you are aware of economic data that suggests there is some region that is doing well economically, I am not so sure what is contraversial about that statement.

[DGuller]

I didnt deny China has a way to go.  I said the rest of the world isnt doing so well economically either.

Except for 70+ countries?

[DGuller]

Unless you are aware of economic data that suggests there is some region that is doing well economically, I am not so sure what is contraversial about that statement.

Yes, all of Western Europe, for one.  Compared to China anyway.  Even Greece.

[crazy canuck]

I didnt deny China has a way to go.  I said the rest of the world isnt doing so well economically either.

Except for 70+ countries?

Are doing well economically?

You would make an excellent Russian propogandist.

Wait a minute. 

[crazy canuck]

Unless you are aware of economic data that suggests there is some region that is doing well economically, I am not so sure what is contraversial about that statement.

Yes, all of Western Europe, for one.  Compared to China anyway.  Even Greece.

Way to miss the point. 

[DGuller]

The point is that you have consistently conflated "good" with "getting better".  A homeless person who goes from owning one cardboard box to owning two cardboard boxes is growing his material wealth quickly, but Warren Buffett is still doing better, even if he took a couple of hits these last few weeks.

[Valmy]

Being a key part of the world's economy and political order are China's natural position, it was going to assert itself eventually no matter who was in charge.

There is no "natural position" in the world order. A mismanaged country can stay poor and insignificant even if it has a huge population. 

True. I guess it was more like 'their position if they are not totally fucking shit up'.

China has a tradition and culture that lends itself to being a political and economic powerhouse as well, when they are not totally melting down into chaos and violence which they tend to do every once in a while.

[crazy canuck]

The point is that you have consistently conflated "good" with "getting better".  A homeless person who goes from owning one cardboard box to owning two cardboard boxes is growing his material wealth quickly, but Warren Buffett is still doing better, even if he took a couple of hits these last few weeks.

More strawmen, or did you really not understand my first point that being critical of the Party intervening in the economy now was odd since the Party has always intervened in the economy.  I think you actually didnt read what I said up thread. 

[Razgovory]

Unless you are aware of economic data that suggests there is some region that is doing well economically, I am not so sure what is contraversial about that statement.

Yes, all of Western Europe, for one.  Compared to China anyway.  Even Greece.

Way to miss the point.

What is the point? 

[crazy canuck]

Unless you are aware of economic data that suggests there is some region that is doing well economically, I am not so sure what is contraversial about that statement.

Yes, all of Western Europe, for one.  Compared to China anyway.  Even Greece.

Way to miss the point.

What is the point?

That being worried about the Party intervening in the economy now is odd.  What is the difference between them intervening now and the constant and consistent intervention that has always existed.

[Razgovory]

That being worried about the Party intervening in the economy now is odd.  What is the difference between them intervening now and the constant and consistent intervention that has always existed.

Because not all intervention is the same?

[grumbler]

That being worried about the Party intervening in the economy now is odd.  What is the difference between them intervening now and the constant and consistent intervention that has always existed.

China's success has come where the Party's intervention was least.  China attempted to develop their economy with high levels of Party intervention, and tens of millions of Chinese starved to death.  They then backed off from Party intervention, and the economy prospered.

Where "the Party" has been effective in the economy is in infrastructure creation.  And that isn't at all ideological, except for the showpieces like the unused maglev train in Shanghai.  Germany's "Parties" has been successfully growing Germany's infrastructure for about 150 years (baring a 30-year period of  ideologically-driven intervention).

The CCP's intervention in the stock market has been a disaster.

[MadImmortalMan]

Well, now they're exporting their strategy with this New Silk Road thing they put in the latest "5 year plan". Ghost cities for all.