and now.... Honduras.

[Admiral Yi]

Wow, pretty severe.  Sort of like that Athenian law that anyone who proposes to spend the "special reserve" get executed.

[derspiess]

Wow, pretty severe.  Sort of like that Athenian law that anyone who proposes to spend the "special reserve" get executed.

Yeah, but I suppose you get really tired of caudillos after a while.

Look for Argentina to outlaw wives of former presidents running for office pretty soon

[The Larch]

I think Obama did the right thing.  The dude had two years left in his term, if after two years he barricades himself in the presidential palace and tells his followers to take to the streets, that's the time for the military to take action.

The military didn't have a choice.  It was ordered by the Supreme Court to remove him from office, in accordance with the Honduran constitution.  The system worked-- it wasn't even a coup.

One thing is removing from office through, you know, trials and lawful means, and another different one is breaking into the official residence at night, taking the guy out of bed at gunpoint and putting him on a plane to a different country.

[Valmy]

One thing is removing from office through, you know, trials and lawful means, and another different one is breaking into the official residence at night, taking the guy out of bed at gunpoint and putting him on a plane to a different country.

What! Will you never cease prating of laws to us that have swords by our sides?

Seriously though if his removal was legal and demanded through the judiciary why does the details of how it was done matter?  It is not like the army killed anybody.

[viper37]

One thing is removing from office through, you know, trials and lawful means, and another different one is breaking into the official residence at night, taking the guy out of bed at gunpoint and putting him on a plane to a different country.

It wasn't at night, it was in the morning.  It was at gunpoint because he had heavily armed bodyguards and he had already led a mini-uprising to force the army's hand in accepting his referendum idea.

When someone tries to seize power illegally, it a country like Honduras, it may be dangerous to allow him to remain in place, as Venezuela has proven.

[grumbler]

One thing is removing from office through, you know, trials and lawful means, and another different one is breaking into the official residence at night, taking the guy out of bed at gunpoint and putting him on a plane to a different country.

Not sure what "trial" you are referring to.  The law says there is no trial, they guy has simply vacated his office.

The problem of what to do with ex-Presidents has vexed many countries.  The US would arguably have been better-off doing this to Clinton as soon as his term ended.

[derspiess]

The problem of what to do with ex-Presidents has vexed many countries.  The US would arguably have been better-off doing this to Clinton as soon as his term ended.

Well, we did send him to Haiti this week.  That's harsh enough.

[The Larch]

Sure, the guy had to go, I don't doubt that, although it can be said that pretending to hold a non binding referendum might be feeble grounds to it. What I question are the means used to do it. Surely expatriation was overkill, and against the Honduran penal code itself.

[Caliga]

Well, we did send him to Haiti this week.  That's harsh enough.

Harsh?  Dude probably had a craving for chocolate buns

[Valmy]

Sure, the guy had to go, I don't doubt that, although it can be said that pretending to hold a non binding referendum might be feeble grounds to it. What I question are the means used to do it. Surely expatriation was overkill, and against the Honduran penal code itself.

Those are the means things have been getting done in Central America for a long time.  At least this time it was done to enforce the law, not break it.

[The Larch]

Sure, the guy had to go, I don't doubt that, although it can be said that pretending to hold a non binding referendum might be feeble grounds to it. What I question are the means used to do it. Surely expatriation was overkill, and against the Honduran penal code itself.

Those are the means things have been getting done in Central America for a long time.  At least this time it was done to enforce the law, not break it.

My personal opinion is that, when "enforcing" the law, they went way overboard and broke other laws in the process. Even if the spirit of the law is being kept, plenty of unsavoury stuff was done as well on its name.

[KRonn]

Seems to me, especially after seeing the Honduran Constitution, that the Honduran courts did the right thing - obeyed the laws. While the President did not. Saying he was innocently proposing a referendum seems off the mark, since that referendum violates the country's Constitution. Looks like the Hondurans have a Constitution that tries to ensure Democracy and prevent strong men or dictators from coming to power. The travesty probably would have been if the military sided with the President.

However, I guess it can be argued that the courts should have waited, that the referendum was just being proposed for voting, and not being implemented. But if such an unlawful referendum is allowed, it could probably be argued that it sets a dangerous course and one that would be more problematic.

[Admiral Yi]

My personal opinion is that, when "enforcing" the law, they went way overboard and broke other laws in the process. Even if the spirit of the law is being kept, plenty of unsavoury stuff was done as well on its name.

I'm inclined to agree with you.  What are your thoughts on the OAS position?

[Valmy]

My personal opinion is that, when "enforcing" the law, they went way overboard and broke other laws in the process. Even if the spirit of the law is being kept, plenty of unsavoury stuff was done as well on its name.

Well I certainly agree that having the military execute domestic laws and throw Presidents out of the country is probably not a good thing it is better than what I originally thought the situation was.

[Neil]

Fortunately, he wasn't actually the president anymore.  The positions taken by the other American states seem mainly to be founded in a desire to create another left-wind dictator (Venezuala) or profound ignorance (the US).