Star Wars Discussion Thread contains spoilers (and may contain nuts)

[Hamilcar]

If I had to bet, I'd say that Rey is not Luke's daughter, because.... she doesn't have a father like Anakin.

Speculation based on Snoke=Plagueis. Anakin was never the chosen one to bring balance, but Plagueis' creature. This led to disaster. Rey was conceived by the Force to actually bring balance by bringing down Plagueis, who has been manipulating events since before Ep 1. She isn't a Skywalker at all, but she's the Chosen One.

[Syt]

Thanks, that makes a lot more sense now. Could have been delivered with like 2-3 throwaway lines.

Yes, just a short scene of Leia talking to her financiers via hologram, begging for money that the sympathizers want to give but can't, and using the scene to show an establishing shot of the capital and the senate would have been fine. 30 seconds or a minute is all it takes to establish that and could help underscore in what a precarious position the Resistance is, plus adding some impact to the destruction of the capital. Instead of just an anonymous crowd it could then add the face(s) we saw in the holo-call.

[celedhring]

If I had to bet, I'd say that Rey is not Luke's daughter, because.... she doesn't have a father like Anakin.

Speculation based on Snoke=Plagueis. Anakin was never the chosen one to bring balance, but Plagueis' creature. This led to disaster. Rey was conceived by the Force to actually bring balance by bringing down Plagueis, who has been manipulating events since before Ep 1. She isn't a Skywalker at all, but she's the Chosen One.

George Lucas, leave Hamilcar's body! I exorcise you!

[Kleves]

If I had to bet, I'd say that Rey is not Luke's daughter, because.... she doesn't have a father like Anakin.

Speculation based on Snoke=Plagueis. Anakin was never the chosen one to bring balance, but Plagueis' creature. This led to disaster. Rey was conceived by the Force to actually bring balance by bringing down Plagueis, who has been manipulating events since before Ep 1. She isn't a Skywalker at all, but she's the Chosen One.

Doesn't Edna Mode say that she's "seen those eyes before" or some such? That seems to indicate that Rey has parents.

[Hamilcar]

Doesn't Edna Mode say that she's "seen those eyes before" or some such? That seems to indicate that Rey has parents.

Could be the eyes of someone created by the Force, aka Anakin.

[celedhring]

She says that to Finn, not Rey. Unless I'm misremembering.

[celedhring]

Speaking of Maz, I hope at some point we get a decent explanation of how Anakin's lightbaser ended up there. It was pretty laughable how they lampshaded it with that "good question, for another day" line.

[Syt]

That's an explanation I can live with for now, though. In myth and fairy tales, mythical weapons or artifacts have a tendency to resurface at opportune moments. I'm ok with, "There's a story here, but it's not important at the moment." Star Wars plots have always hinged on luck or "destiny", so I can suspend my disbelief in that regard to some degree. I don't think TFA is worse than ANH in that regard.

[celedhring]

I don't think TFA is worse than ANH in that regard.

Oh, it certainly is. Maybe later I'll make a list of all the implausibilities and plot contrivances TFA has. It's pretty ridiculous.  You know, in ANH at least they bothered with disguising as stormtroopers while they roamed around the Death Star. Here, they just don't care and everybody walks around Starkiller base, capturing officers, lowering the shields, without anybody noticing. At one point I just got the feeling the writers just didn't give a damn.

Regarding Anakin's lightsaber, the last time we saw that lightsaber it was falling into a gas giant. Note, I'm happy that they made that weapon reappear - it ties the three generations of Skywalkers together -, I just wish they were less lazy about it.

[Syt]

With the base, they didn't disguise themselves, true, but it seemed to be a station somewhat apart from the main complex, and Han implied they need to hurry to not be discovered ("The longer we take, the less luck we'll have."). Disguising themselves as Stormtroopers would have been too much of a callback, IMHO.

Yes, that's when we last saw the light saber, and the One Ring was last seen falling into a river ... I don't find it implausible that there might be relic hunters finding it, or a gas miner finding it by luck, or maybe even Lando going back to Cloud City at some point and coming across it, or a combination of all the above. Maybe Maz recovered it herself, considering her long history, her being able to sense the Force, and having been a smuggler/pirate. There's plenty explanations that are plausible within the universe. It's a tantalizing mystery, but not one that takes me out of the movie.

[celedhring]

With the base, they didn't disguise themselves, true, but it seemed to be a station somewhat apart from the main complex, and Han implied they need to hurry to not be discovered ("The longer we take, the less luck we'll have."). Disguising themselves as Stormtroopers would have been too much of a callback, IMHO.

Yes, that's when we last saw the light saber, and the One Ring was last seen falling into a river ... I don't find it implausible that there might be relic hunters finding it, or a gas miner finding it by luck, or maybe even Lando going back to Cloud City at some point and coming across it, or a combination of all the above. Maybe Maz recovered it herself, considering her long history, her being able to sense the Force, and having been a smuggler/pirate. There's plenty explanations that are plausible within the universe. It's a tantalizing mystery, but not one that takes me out of the movie.

It's the station that controls the shields of the entire planet, it makes no sense that it's not more closely watched. It also makes no sense how a First Order fanatic like Phasma yields so easily. I actually was expecting she would trick them and set off the alarm, or something.

While we are talking of Maz. "Hello, I'm Han solo, smuggler legendary. I think we need a clean ship so you are not detected, and in order to get it I'm taking you to a place full of First Order spies. And you're not staying in the ship, you're coming with me so everybody can see you."

I'm fine with suspending disbelief, but TFA asked me to drink from that well too many times and it ended drying up.

[Syt]

It's the station that controls the shields of the entire planet, it makes no sense that it's not more closely watched. It also makes no sense how a First Order fanatic like Phasma yields so easily. I actually was expecting she would trick them and set off the alarm, or something.

Was also disappointed by Phasma, agreed. But in ANH, the Empire captures a ship that they have strongly suspect to have a connection to the missing droids they're looking for, Vader senses Kenobi has arrived with the ship, and they aren't sure if the ship is truly empty. So they leave it under guard by two(!) troopers (and a scanning crew), and two officers in their office in a huge ass hangar bay. Not what I would call tight security, either. Again, TFA is not worse than ANH. Similarly with both cantina scenes. Kenobi announces to the whole patronage that he has a frickin' lightsaber when he could probably have defused the situation otherwise (use force push to knock them out or whatever). And instead of getting out of there, he stays to negotiate passage to Alderaan. Not exactly his brightest moment.

[Zanza]

I liked Rey, but it is a bit annoying that she is good at everything she does, especially stuff like using the force or sword fighting. It would have been better if they had shown her to use these skills unconsciously before or so.

[Syt]

I found it interesting that she received many offers during the movie that she refused - extra rations in exchange for the droid, joining Solo's crew, running away with Finn, being trained by Kylo Ren.

She also at first rejects the light saber and everything it stands for only to finally accept it in the last act of the movie. So in many ways it's about her trying to find her place in the world.

But yeah, she's good at everything, so I expect her to become some sort of super-Jedi, and I'm sure she will also be tempted by the dark side. I was kind of wondering about that in the duel against Kylo Ren, and I wonder if she would have killed him if the planet hadn't fallen apart - or if this would have been another offer she'd refuse.

[celedhring]

I liked Rey, but it is a bit annoying that she is good at everything she does, especially stuff like using the force or sword fighting. It would have been better if they had shown her to use these skills unconsciously before or so.

Yeah, that's one of the things that slightly miffed me. In ANH Luke was naturally good at things, that's a trait of Force sensitives, but he still had to be trained by Obi Wan, and he didn't really use any Force "power" (telekinesis, etc...) until Ep V.

In Rey's case, I'm willing to defer judgement until we know more about who she really is, though.

It's the station that controls the shields of the entire planet, it makes no sense that it's not more closely watched. It also makes no sense how a First Order fanatic like Phasma yields so easily. I actually was expecting she would trick them and set off the alarm, or something.

Was also disappointed by Phasma, agreed. But in ANH, the Empire captures a ship that they have strongly suspect to have a connection to the missing droids they're looking for, Vader senses Kenobi has arrived with the ship, and they aren't sure if the ship is truly empty. So they leave it under guard by two(!) troopers (and a scanning crew), and two officers in their office in a huge ass hangar bay. Not what I would call tight security, either. Again, TFA is not worse than ANH.

Actually no. In ANH they actually bother to give you a semi-plausible explanation ("One of the escape pods is missing, they must have fled"), that points at your heroes being smart and resourceful, and not just trusting that their enemies will be a bunch of idiots.

The fact that the plot is so derivative from ANH let's you compare a bunch of plot points that are very similar in both movies, but they are much better done in ANH. A few:

- The Death Star / Starkiller Base plans. Somebody should have told all those bothans that just sending a scout ship to the Death Star was enough to obtain detailed schematics.
- The aforementioned "sneaking into the enemy base" sequence, where in ANH they are disguised as troopers. Plus in ANH their ruse ends up failing (detention block scene), and they are discovered and have to fight their way out, etc... It's all fleshed out much better than in TFA.
- The "stuff hidden inside a droid" McGuffin. So, where does this map come from? I guess Luke left it in case he needed to be found? Why play puzzles though? Why R2-D2 suddenly decides to wake up and provide the other half? Who's this dude that has a part of it at the beginning of the flick? How come the Empire of all things had half of the map in his archives? It's all so confusing and contrived. In ANH is so much simpler and well, better. "We stole those plans of a secret weapon, we gave them to a Senator so she can use her diplomatic status to deliver them to the rebels, she got caught and hid them inside a droid", and they only need a scene to set all that up.
- The whole political situation. In ANH the opening crawl and further dialogue between Leia and Tarkin sets up the universe clearly. In TFA people have to go and check the official site to figure out what's going on.

and I wonder if she would have killed him if the planet hadn't fallen apart - or if this would have been another offer she'd refuse.

See, that's another contrivance that annoyed me. Instead of having a main character face a big moral decision, let's have an earthquake separate them so we don't have to write that.

It annoys me because I do think they did the big things right (they gave us new characters and a new story that interest me and engage me), but they were so neglectful when fleshing out the plot that I just can't say "wow, that was great".