Facebook Follies of Friends and Families

[Barrister]

A number of fundamentalist religions recognize that Christmas and Easter are dressed-up pagan holidays and don't celebrate them (religiously, at any rate).  Halloween isn't even a dressed-up pagan ritual.

I've heard that about Christmas, and it's not as if the birth of Christ was that big a deal in the Bible (IIRC it's only even mentioned in 2 of the 4 gospels).

But Easter?  Christ's death and resurrection is kind of the whole point of Christianity.  Are their religious traditions that don't celebrate Easter?  And I don't mean hiding eggs - but don't religiously mark the occasion?

[Valmy]

I mean there were pagan rituals every day of the year. Sure there was some cultural influence but the idea that these are, in fact, specific pagan holidays that were dressed up seems very dubious with little historical evidence to support it. The very fact that nobody can seem to agree exactly what pagan holiday Christmas is supposed to be (Feast of the Unconquered Sun? Saturnalia? Some Germanic thing?) is evidence of that. Sure some cultural elements seeped in but if it is an actual pagan holiday surely it should only have elements from one of those holidays right? Since it is just that holiday dressed-up?

[Josquius]

All of the above. Its for logical reason that a lot of pagan religions celebrated the solstice. Its very possible they didn't even develop independently and came from a common ancestor festival.

[The Brain]

In Sweden we celebrate jul, not Christmas. We did it before Christianity came, and we do it after it has left.

[Razgovory]

Christmas was certainly based on Saturnian (despite not occurring at the same time).  The traditions of Saturnalia, burning the corpses of gladiators and playing with your nuts, are basically sacraments recognized by all Christian denominations.

[grumbler]

But Easter?  Christ's death and resurrection is kind of the whole point of Christianity.  Are their religious traditions that don't celebrate Easter?  And I don't mean hiding eggs - but don't religiously mark the occasion?

This was so hard to Google (not!)

Denominations
The most famous Christian groups to commonly reject Easter are: the Religious Society of Friends (Quakers), Messianic Jewish groups (also known as Hebrew-Christians), Armstrong Movement churches, many Puritan-descended Presbyterians, and Jehovah's Witnesses.

https://www.infoplease.com/culture-entertainment/holidays/christian-groups-dont-celebrate-easter

[The Minsky Moment]

I mean there were pagan rituals every day of the year. Sure there was some cultural influence but the idea that these are, in fact, specific pagan holidays that were dressed up seems very dubious with little historical evidence to support it. The very fact that nobody can seem to agree exactly what pagan holiday Christmas is supposed to be (Feast of the Unconquered Sun? Saturnalia? Some Germanic thing?) is evidence of that.\

I think that objection misses the mark.  The argument is that wherever Christianity spread, it coopted whatever local festivals that were in place.  In the specific case of Easter, of course, there was a specific holiday that it was supplanting - namely the Jewish Passover.  However, in places where that celebration was unknown, whatever spring equinox festival existed could be co-opted and re-purposed.  Which likely mirrors the lost history of the Passover festival itself - a folk celebration of the coming of spring recast as the renewal and regeneration of the Hebrews as a people.  As for Christmas, the date was deliberately set to match the winter solstice. 

[Barrister]

As for Christmas, the date was deliberately set to match the winter solstice.

If so they didn't do a very good job at it...

[Jacob]

Beeb, you're a prosecutor. You of all people should know that just because someone did a shoddy job doesn't mean they didn't do it.

[Razgovory]

I mean there were pagan rituals every day of the year. Sure there was some cultural influence but the idea that these are, in fact, specific pagan holidays that were dressed up seems very dubious with little historical evidence to support it. The very fact that nobody can seem to agree exactly what pagan holiday Christmas is supposed to be (Feast of the Unconquered Sun? Saturnalia? Some Germanic thing?) is evidence of that.\

I think that objection misses the mark.  The argument is that wherever Christianity spread, it coopted whatever local festivals that were in place.  In the specific case of Easter, of course, there was a specific holiday that it was supplanting - namely the Jewish Passover.  However, in places where that celebration was unknown, whatever spring equinox festival existed could be co-opted and re-purposed.  Which likely mirrors the lost history of the Passover festival itself - a folk celebration of the coming of spring recast as the renewal and regeneration of the Hebrews as a people.  As for Christmas, the date was deliberately set to match the winter solstice.

The argument that "wherever Christianity spread, it coopted whatever local festivals that were in place" is propaganda from the reformation.  It's much easy to kill a priest and take his stuff if he's secretly a pagan.  There's not much truth in it.  I don't know of any records from ancient Rome that say "we made Christmas on the winter solstice".  This is possibly because it didn't occur on the winter solstice.  As for Easter, there is no known spring festival called "Easter" or anything like it.  The Anglo-Saxon's had a month named Eostre-month, and it might have had a festival on that month dedicated to the otherwise unknown goddess "Eostre".  We have one source for this: a couple of lines written by an aging monk.  Beyond that is conjecture.

[grumbler]

Man, Catholics are still really militant about denying that they ever coopted pagan religious elements, aren't they Mr. Easter Bunny? 

[Valmy]

All of the above. Its for logical reason that a lot of pagan religions celebrated the solstice. Its very possible they didn't even develop independently and came from a common ancestor festival.

So if any religion happens to have a celebration near a solstice or equinox it is automatically 'Pagan'? Halloween is not near either though and it certainly has jack shit to do with some ancient Satan religion, yet you praise this interpretation.

[Razgovory]

Man, Catholics are still really militant about denying that they ever coopted pagan religious elements, aren't they Mr. Easter Bunny? 

What pagan religious element was the Easter bunny from again?  I seem to have forgotten. 

[Valmy]

Man, Catholics are still really militant about denying that they ever coopted pagan religious elements, aren't they Mr. Easter Bunny? 

All cultural elements are "coopted pagan religious elements"? Besides virtually all of Judaism and Christianity is full of coopted cultural artifacts from some previous culture, probably even a pagan one if we follow this ridiculous and fallacious line of bullshit. Should we then burn the whole bible as Pagan, Mr. El?

[Razgovory]

Every year we celebrate the fury of the god of war with a basketball tournament. We call it "March Madness"