Facebook Follies of Friends and Families

[Duque de Bragança]

Very far in ideology though from NSDAP. Can't put Beneš on the same footing as Adolf.
Between social democracy and liberalism. So more like civic nationalism.

In socialist terms, Benito was more socialist than Adolf. 

It'd be better if you quoted Brain, as you had me scratching my head for a while wondering what you were answering. 

Next time, either answer quickly or slowly. 

[The Brain]

Go big or go home. Loose lips sink ships.

[viper37]

That's a joke right? 

It is not.

I posted a rebuttal to my sisters wall, and I suspect it may mean she disowns me. Pointing out that the young womens last words were ""Long live the Communist Party, and partisans! Fight, people, for your freedom! Do not surrender to the evildoers! I will be killed, but there are those who will avenge me!" and that she was a member of the Communist Party since she was 15 will not go over well.

Reading this thread makes me glad my parents never had another child...

[The Larch]

The Larch

Chetniks were also Yugoslav partisans, but I know what you mean.

I doubt that Chetniks would have teenage girls amongst their ranks.  And by 1943 they were already somehow allied with the Nazis anyway, fighting against Tito and terrorizing non Serb populations.

Auxiliary roles most likely, as was the social norm in the Balkans and elsewhere.
I also doubt they terrorized German-speaking populations (Volksdeutsche) given the amount of reprisals they would get. 
Some groups even came up with some kind of understanding with the Ustasha, despite the Ustasha mass slaughtering Serbs.
Mihajlovic's authority, role and opportunistic/collaborationist policy vis-à-vis the German and Italian occupation forces – the latter used the Chetniks in a divide et impera way, to counter the now hostile Ustasha (protecting some Serbian civilian population in some cases) – is still a hot topic in Serbia, whereas in the West the matter is mostly settled.

Actually Chetniks limited women participation to nursing and intelligence, and completely banned them from fighting duties. In fact they ridiculed Tito's partisans for having women fighting alongside them.


In any case, WWII in the Balkans was a bloody mess and keeping track of all the shifting alliances a maddening effort.

So basically, we're in agreement.  cf. auxiliary roles

But you said it was the social norm in the Balkans, when Tito's partisans did give women fighting roles. In fact Lepa Radic was a member of a Partisan combat unit.

Nobody disputes that, but Chetniks did try to moderate their anti-muslim stance after 1943, with limited results, given all the previous bad blood.

The Chetniks were a bit all over the place depending on the situation and place, as they operated very independently from each other. The only constant after 1941 was that their number one enemy was Tito, and they'd work with whoever that allowed them to go after him. For instance, when the Soviets were approaching they even tried to gain their support using the pan-slavist card and historical ties between Russia and Serbia as excuse, and for brief periods it'd work out, until the Soviets would order them to either join Tito's Partisans or disarm.

Their dilemma was not unique see Ukrainian nationalists under Bandera, a radical as well. First, welcoming Germs as liberators, even collaborating, then turning back against them as well however, given the harsh occupation and nazi ideology.

Yeah, or in the Baltics as well.

[Eddie Teach]

That's a joke right? 

It is not.

I posted a rebuttal to my sisters wall, and I suspect it may mean she disowns me. Pointing out that the young womens last words were ""Long live the Communist Party, and partisans! Fight, people, for your freedom! Do not surrender to the evildoers! I will be killed, but there are those who will avenge me!" and that she was a member of the Communist Party since she was 15 will not go over well.

Reading this thread makes me glad my parents never had another child...

I'd have no idea if one of my sisters was shit-posting on Facebook or not. And more it's people at my funeral... But seriously, siblings can be a blessing or a curse. If your parents raised you well, more likely the former.

[Duque de Bragança]

Tito's Party was the vanguard of the proletariat and thus not within Balkanic reactionary social norms. A leftie like you should have understood that. 
While Tito's Partisans did open to other tendencies as a national liberation front, they also have their share of atrocities against for instance Italian civilians at the end of the war in Istria.
Chetniks tried to opportunistically side with Soviets but yes, Tito's relationship with Stalin was not bad yet to prevent it, among other reasons.

The Balts and their SS, reminds me of a despicable leftist communautarist leader, former PS apparatchik, in France, who has an axe to grind with the Balts for some reason, and invented a Lithuanian SS division on his blog to slander them before quietly removing it, without any apology of course.
That's Mélenchon, one who gets elected with islamist banlieue votes. Before you ask, not those from heirs of the Handschar SS Division. 

[Razgovory]

Um... okay.

[Tamas]

You people are well enough read in history to know better than trying to resolve your political context and issues in the Balkan's. The Balkans are nothing more than vicious and ancient tribal warfare all day, every day. Try to untangle it and you will be trapped by it, at your own peril.

[The Larch]

You people are well enough read in history to know better than trying to resolve your political context and issues in the Balkan's. The Balkans are nothing more than vicious and ancient tribal warfare all day, every day. Try to untangle it and you will be trapped by it, at your own peril.

[Duque de Bragança]

Point taken.  After all, in Wien fängt der Balkan an, you have first-hand knowledge of it.
Last example was about the Balts though, which are not Balkanic, though some problems, national minorities status e.g (less so in Lithuania).

Thing is, balkanisation as a synonym of identity-based factionalism i.e identity politics is used in French politics, along with a less common one nowadays "libanisation".

[Zoupa]

Point taken.  After all, in Wien fängt der Balkan an, you have first-hand knowledge of it.
Last example was about the Balts though, which are not Balkanic, though some problems, national minorities status e.g (less so in Lithuania).

Thing is, balkanisation as a synonym of identity-based factionalism i.e identity politics is used in French politics, along with a less common one nowadays "libanisation".

Lithuanians might not have formed an SS division, but their police were plenty chummy with the Einsatzkommando.

[Duque de Bragança]

Point taken.  After all, in Wien fängt der Balkan an, you have first-hand knowledge of it.
Last example was about the Balts though, which are not Balkanic, though some problems, national minorities status e.g (less so in Lithuania).

Thing is, balkanisation as a synonym of identity-based factionalism i.e identity politics is used in French politics, along with a less common one nowadays "libanisation".

Lithuanians might not have formed an SS division, but their police were plenty chummy with the Einsatzkommando.

Not might not, did not.
Police collaboration is hardly a Lithuanian exclusive, rather the rule. Except for Denmark which got its police dissolved for lack of cooperation, replaced by a pro-nazi one.
OTOH, a later auxiliary Lithuanian police corps was dissolved due to perceived lack of cooperation, nazi distrust (Lithuanians seen as being half Slav), perceived Lithuanian duplicity and lack of military value.
Widespread anti-semitism ? Of course. As in Mélenchon's current electoral basis in the banlieues (stones houses of glass etc.)

Méchant con (©Flanby) got somewhat factual only once about the Balts by saying "the Romans were never there" (the Baltic area as end of the world is m more questionable). That was in order to include North Africans, his main clientèle. Of course, being born in Morocco, as a son of high-ranking colonial civil servant might have played a part as well. Of course, this makes Egypt European as well. Problematic too, as pointed by critics in another Libération article, far from perfect itself.

However, given Mélenchon's pro-Putin tendencies he could be simply parroting the Kremlin line, by using some prejudices against Eastern Europeans (as a leftie he can't do that for North Africans).
The claim about Balts having trouble with Russians for 1000 years, repeated at the last Presidential election debate favors this hypothesis.

Le « peuple européen », qu'est-ce que c'est ? Je ne me sens rien de commun avec les pays baltes. C'est le bout du monde, même les Romains ne sont pas allés là-bas ! La grande matrice de l'Europe, ce sont les frontières de l'Empire romain. En deçà, la nation civique ; au-delà, la nation ethnique. Et quel déni de la réalité concrète ! Il y a un million de Maghrébins qui vivent aujourd'hui en France, dont une majorité sont français ! On a des familles en commun ! Mais on les traite en suspects ! Et on traiterait comme des frères de lointains Lituaniens sous prétexte qu'ils sont chrétiens ! Ce n'est pas mon histoire.

https://www.liberation.fr/checknews/2017/12/15/bonjour-jean-luc-melenchon-a-t-il-vraiment-dit-comme-le-relate-slate-en-citant-le-1-je-ne-me-sens-ri_1652913

PS: Mélenchon also ignores the long resistance of pagan Lithuanians to Christianity. The last ones in Europe to convert.

[Duque de Bragança]

Back to topic, a more subtle, or less stupid (take your pick) meme, from that great fountain of knowledge called Third Eye Open which grants you critical thinker status since you do not rely on mainstream media:

[The Brain]

My brown eye is fully open.

[Duque de Bragança]

Unlike Luther. Good for you

PS: Third Eye has often the meaning of brown eye in Portuguese as well.