Facebook Follies of Friends and Families

[Maximus]

I would consider keeping someone enslaved to be enslaving them. I don't think that's at all inaccurate.

[dps]

I would consider keeping someone enslaved to be enslaving them. I don't think that's at all inaccurate.

I agree, but it's still inaccurate to say that Americans enslaved a whole race.  Not all black Africans were enslaved, and not all of the ones who were enslaved were brought to America.

[Maximus]

Well you could argue that it's automatically inaccurate by virtue of the fact that races don't exist, but that would be unhelpful. Beyond that, the word "race" can mean almost whatever you want it to mean. Speaking of African-Americans as a race in this context is no stretch.

[Oexmelin]

Just what I said. It is inaccurate and I think removes it from its context.

Yes. I never said anybody was a victim of some West African thing. That was just a personal attack on me...so yeah.

It is not inaccurate. Keeping someone enslaved is enslaving them. What kind of context does it remove? What's the purpose of the distinction between those who capture and those who maintain in slavery?

Thus my bringing up West Africa - which I fail to see how it can be construed as a personal attack. People who usually bring up the distinction between those who captured men and sold them into slavery and those who maintained people in chattel slavery often do so in order to diffuse blame and responsibility, at least in part, to "Africans". And it is still the vibe I get from your post. It may have been motivated by a genuine desire for historical nitpicking, but it takes place in a context where such deflections are meant to establish dubious similarities, and silence protest. So I reacted strongly, because I think this sort of distinction doesn't bring clarity to the matter (if the matter is indeed the inner workings of the Atlantic slave trade, and not some sort of ahistorical, eternal "slavery").

[grumbler]

I'm not really sure what Valmy is angling at here.

I'm not really sure why you find his clear statements so baffling.

If one protests against history, then one's protest will never end, because its cause will never change.  That's not rocket science.

[grumbler]

I would consider keeping someone enslaved to be enslaving them. I don't think that's at all inaccurate.

That's playing semantic games.

The problem with western and Muslim slavery, as opposed to actual (non-romanticized) African or even ancient slavery, is that it was chattel slavery.  Slaves weren't just a lower class, they weren't even people.

But, as Valmy has noted, that's the past and cannot be changed.  There is a great deal about the present that can be changed, but, if Chris Silber is right, "an entire race" can never celebrate American history because the past cannot be changed, and that is what he RAGEs against.  That poor "entire race" is just fucked, plain and simple.  Doomed to live in a land whose history and individual accomplishments (even if it is their own) cannot be celebrate just because it cannot be changed.

Yeah, whatever.  He and his ilk will eventually die off and leave the stage for those who can appreciate history for what it is, not for what it can never be.

[grumbler]

I would consider keeping someone enslaved to be enslaving them. I don't think that's at all inaccurate.

I agree, but it's still inaccurate to say that Americans enslaved a whole race.  Not all black Africans were enslaved, and not all of the ones who were enslaved were brought to America.

And some of those doing the enslaving (even in the US) were members of that "entire race."  So that "entire race"'s history can never be applauded, either.

[Ed Anger]

Grumbler remembers the slave glut after Alesia.

Pepperidge Farms remembers also

[CountDeMoney]

   -2 on the Berkut Trigger Activation table.

[Razgovory]

I'm not really sure what Valmy is angling at here.

I'm not really sure why you find his clear statements so baffling.

If one protests against history, then one's protest will never end, because its cause will never change.  That's not rocket science.

Well, now I don't know what you are on about either.

[Razgovory]

Just what I said. It is inaccurate and I think removes it from its context.

Yes. I never said anybody was a victim of some West African thing. That was just a personal attack on me...so yeah.

It is not inaccurate. Keeping someone enslaved is enslaving them. What kind of context does it remove? What's the purpose of the distinction between those who capture and those who maintain in slavery?

Thus my bringing up West Africa - which I fail to see how it can be construed as a personal attack. People who usually bring up the distinction between those who captured men and sold them into slavery and those who maintained people in chattel slavery often do so in order to diffuse blame and responsibility, at least in part, to "Africans". And it is still the vibe I get from your post. It may have been motivated by a genuine desire for historical nitpicking, but it takes place in a context where such deflections are meant to establish dubious similarities, and silence protest. So I reacted strongly, because I think this sort of distinction doesn't bring clarity to the matter (if the matter is indeed the inner workings of the Atlantic slave trade, and not some sort of ahistorical, eternal "slavery").

Do Africans share blame and responsibility?

[Eddie Teach]

Yeah, whatever.  He and his ilk will eventually die off and leave the stage for those who can appreciate history for what it is, not for what it can never be.

Will this happen when the moon is in the 7th house and Jupiter aligns with Mars?

[garbon]

I'm not really sure what Valmy is angling at here.

I'm not really sure why you find his clear statements so baffling.

If one protests against history, then one's protest will never end, because its cause will never change.  That's not rocket science.

Who is protesting history?

[Razgovory]

I'm not really sure what Valmy is angling at here.

I'm not really sure why you find his clear statements so baffling.

If one protests against history, then one's protest will never end, because its cause will never change.  That's not rocket science.

Who is protesting history?

Tim.  Every time he buys one of those Turtledove novels.

[grumbler]

Will this happen when the moon is in the 7th house and Jupiter aligns with Mars?

In the year 2555