The Incredible Shrinking Incomes of Young Americans

[The Brain]

It seems like at some point you have to make a value judgment on everything that can make you poor.  Should the safety net protect you if you had the bad luck of having a serious and permanent disability?  Should the safety net protect you if you had the bad luck of losing your job?  Should it protect you if you had the bad luck of being born stupid?  Should it protect you if you had the bad luck of being born without a drive?

No one is born stupid. Many people just degenerate mentally after birth.

That's not true at all. There are tons of people who just don't get it.

That's a lesson I learned when I was 12 or so. One of my school friends was a really hard-working student, who would diligently study several hours every day. Yet he struggled in most subjects. It was a puzzling realization for me, since I aced most classes effortlessly.

I don't know how to respond to this.

[Eddie Teach]

I have never seen a country where the welfare safety net was sufficiently enticing I would consider abandoning my work for that kind of lifestyle - so I am not too concerned with the "motivations" argument...

No safety net can provide you the lifestyle of a gay Polish lawyer.  Some of them could compete with actual employment on providing you the lifestyle of an unskilled laborer, however.

So as unskilled laborers quit to live off the dole, the value of unskilled labor goes up. Eventually robots are gonna take most of those jobs anyway.

[DGuller]

So as unskilled laborers quit to live off the dole, the value of unskilled labor goes up.

Nope, the jobs will go to undocumented illegals, because no native wants to do them.

[Eddie Teach]

So as unskilled laborers quit to live off the dole, the value of unskilled labor goes up.

Nope, the jobs will go to undocumented illegals, because no native wants to do them.

Well, assuming there are enforced immigration laws, the value of unskilled labor goes up.

[Berkut]

It seems like at some point you have to make a value judgment on everything that can make you poor.  Should the safety net protect you if you had the bad luck of having a serious and permanent disability?  Should the safety net protect you if you had the bad luck of losing your job?  Should it protect you if you had the bad luck of being born stupid?  Should it protect you if you had the bad luck of being born without a drive?

No one is born stupid. Many people just degenerate mentally after birth.

That's not true at all. There are tons of people who just don't get it.

That's a lesson I learned when I was 12 or so. One of my school friends was a really hard-working student, who would diligently study several hours every day. Yet he struggled in most subjects. It was a puzzling realization for me, since I aced most classes effortlessly.

That hard working guy will likely do well though. The desire, ability, and willingness to simply work hard is, IMO, more valuable than intelligence. Smart lazy people are often worse than useless.

[Tamas]

So as unskilled laborers quit to live off the dole, the value of unskilled labor goes up.

Nope, the jobs will go to undocumented illegals, because no native wants to do them.

Well, assuming there are enforced immigration laws, the value of unskilled labor goes up.

No because legal immigrants who are either not eligible for the welfare or just happy to earn that money step in to do it.

[Martinus]

So as unskilled laborers quit to live off the dole, the value of unskilled labor goes up.

Nope, the jobs will go to undocumented illegals, because no native wants to do them.

Yeah. That's how Donald Trump got his wives.

[The Brain]

It seems like at some point you have to make a value judgment on everything that can make you poor.  Should the safety net protect you if you had the bad luck of having a serious and permanent disability?  Should the safety net protect you if you had the bad luck of losing your job?  Should it protect you if you had the bad luck of being born stupid?  Should it protect you if you had the bad luck of being born without a drive?

No one is born stupid. Many people just degenerate mentally after birth.

That's not true at all. There are tons of people who just don't get it.

That's a lesson I learned when I was 12 or so. One of my school friends was a really hard-working student, who would diligently study several hours every day. Yet he struggled in most subjects. It was a puzzling realization for me, since I aced most classes effortlessly.

That hard working guy will likely do well though. The desire, ability, and willingness to simply work hard is, IMO, more valuable than intelligence. Smart lazy people are often worse than useless.

Fuck you too.

[DGuller]

That hard working guy will likely do well though. The desire, ability, and willingness to simply work hard is, IMO, more valuable than intelligence. Smart lazy people are often worse than useless.

Depends on the job, I would say.

Those who are clever and industrious I appoint to the General Staff. Use can under certain circumstances be made of those who are stupid and lazy. The man who is clever and lazy qualifies for the highest leadership posts. He has the requisite nerves and the mental clarity for difficult decisions. But whoever is stupid and industrious must be got rid of, for he is too dangerous."

[MadImmortalMan]

I do think there is an element here of wishing for the world to work in a certain way, and assuming that it would, if only society could make it so...

I think shedding this is one of the fundamental hallmarks of maturity. You see it all the time in teenagers who want to fix society to make it more conducive to what they believe will make them successful. Or if you read Paradox OT for five minutes. The first instinct is always to blame society. Only after you get rid of that and start to look at improving yourself can you make any progress. That kind of thinking can actually hold incredibly intelligent people back from achieving what they could otherwise accomplish. And of course the first instinct is to blame society again. Rinse, repeat.

[Malthus]

I do think there is an element here of wishing for the world to work in a certain way, and assuming that it would, if only society could make it so...

I think shedding this is one of the fundamental hallmarks of maturity. You see it all the time in teenagers who want to fix society to make it more conducive to what they believe will make them successful. Or if you read Paradox OT for five minutes. The first instinct is always to blame society. Only after you get rid of that and start to look at improving yourself can you make any progress. That kind of thinking can actually hold incredibly intelligent people back from achieving what they could otherwise accomplish. And of course the first instinct is to blame society again. Rinse, repeat.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKIaS0lh-uo

[Siege]

I have never seen a country where the welfare safety net was sufficiently enticing I would consider abandoning my work for that kind of lifestyle - so I am not too concerned with the "motivations" argument...

Oh, i have seen plenty of people with low expectations.
They value their free time over the freedom provided by money. I really cannot understand them, but they are there, cashing their welfare checks paid for with my taxes.

[Valmy]

I have never seen a country where the welfare safety net was sufficiently enticing I would consider abandoning my work for that kind of lifestyle - so I am not too concerned with the "motivations" argument...

Oh, i have seen plenty of people with low expectations.
They value their free time over the freedom provided by money. I really cannot understand them, but they are there, cashing their welfare checks paid for with my taxes.

Not my taxes though. My taxes are all going to make up for the $10 million dollars Willie Nelson didn't pay back in 1990.  It is a good cause.