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Turkey shoots down Russian fighter jet

Started by Barrister, November 24, 2015, 10:43:23 AM

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Liep

Maybe now they'll also stay out of Swedish and Danish airspace!
"Af alle latterlige Ting forekommer det mig at være det allerlatterligste at have travlt" - Kierkegaard

"JamenajmenømahrmDÆ!DÆ! Æhvnårvaæhvadlelæh! Hvor er det crazy, det her, mand!" - Uffe Elbæk

Malthus

Quote from: Liep on November 24, 2015, 01:50:47 PM
Maybe now they'll also stay out of Swedish and Danish airspace!

I don't think the Turks fly that far.  ;)
The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane—Marcus Aurelius

DGuller


Liep

Quote from: Malthus on November 24, 2015, 01:52:04 PM
Quote from: Liep on November 24, 2015, 01:50:47 PM
Maybe now they'll also stay out of Swedish and Danish airspace!

I don't think the Turks fly that far.  ;)

We need to oust our social democratic overlords and install an Erdogan type figure to create a Scandinavian empire that won't think twice about shooting down a Russian plane into the Baltic. :angry:
"Af alle latterlige Ting forekommer det mig at være det allerlatterligste at have travlt" - Kierkegaard

"JamenajmenømahrmDÆ!DÆ! Æhvnårvaæhvadlelæh! Hvor er det crazy, det her, mand!" - Uffe Elbæk

alfred russel

Quote from: Barrister on November 24, 2015, 01:42:01 PM
Quote from: alfred russel on November 24, 2015, 01:33:39 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on November 24, 2015, 01:23:07 PM
Great, it looks like they fell in the territory of the rebels we've been helping.

I don't think anyone is deluded into thinking there are "good guy" factions with western european / american values to support.

But, while strategically important and significant, in some ways turkey is the most unfortunate nato member.

I dunno - they're probably the most useful member after the US, and maybe France.

The UK?

But yes, while enormously useful, also led by Erdogan. Is what they bring to the table worth bringing to the table someone who doesn't really qualify as one of the good guys?

In the Cold War, Turkey in NATO was a no brainer. Not so sure anymore, but you can't really kick them out either.
They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

There's a fine line between salvation and drinking poison in the jungle.

I'm embarrassed. I've been making the mistake of associating with you. It won't happen again. :)
-garbon, February 23, 2014

mongers

Quote from: KRonn on November 24, 2015, 01:48:04 PM
Quote from: Solmyr on November 24, 2015, 01:38:56 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on November 24, 2015, 01:23:07 PM
Great, it looks like they fell in the territory of the rebels we've been helping.

Yeah, and the ones Russia was bombing.

Here's my take on things. I doubt if the guys the US/West has been helping are much better than ISIS, including the guys who shot up Russkie pilots. If they were to get control of Syria I have to assume it'll be their brand of extremism. A few years ago when the Syrian civil war started and ISIS and other radicals supposedly weren't as big a part of the opposition to Assad, then maybe there were actually "moderates" in force and a good reason to support them. But even then the US claim was that we couldn't tell who was who so didn't do much. Now that so many more rebels of the extremist persuasion have joined the cause, now we seem to be a lot more active in arming rebels and continued insistence on ousting Assad. I figure once he goes then Syria becomes another Libya or Yemen, failed state.

Yes, it's not good is it, Kronn.

And the civil war still has the potential to get a lot, lot worse, judging by historical standards and I mean by that proportionally less military and rebel deaths and a lot more civilian deaths. That based on the until recent breakdown* of casualties of around 30%military,30% rebel and 40% civilians killed in the war.



* based on what the Syrian human rights observatory was reporting.
"We have it in our power to begin the world over again"

Razgovory

Quote from: Solmyr on November 24, 2015, 01:38:56 PM
Quote from: Razgovory on November 24, 2015, 01:23:07 PM
Great, it looks like they fell in the territory of the rebels we've been helping.

Yeah, and the ones Russia was bombing.

Oh, the twisted webs we weave.  The US and Russia are not only arming opposing forces but actively attacking those forces.  Nobody would have done something this stupid in the Cold War.
I've given it serious thought. I must scorn the ways of my family, and seek a Japanese woman to yield me my progeny. He shall live in the lands of the east, and be well tutored in his sacred trust to weave the best traditions of Japan and the Sacred South together, until such time as he (or, indeed his house, which will periodically require infusion of both Southern and Japanese bloodlines of note) can deliver to the South it's independence, either in this world or in space.  -Lettow April of 2011

Raz is right. -MadImmortalMan March of 2017

mongers

Erdogan comments on the shooting down.

Quote
Turkish plane that reportedly strayed into its territory.

PM Recep Tayyip Erdogan told parliament that if Syrian troops approached Turkey's borders, they would be seen as a military threat.

Meanwhile Nato has expressed its condemnation of Syria's attack as well as strong support for Turkey.

Syria insists the F-4 Phantom jet was shot down inside Syrian airspace.

The plane crashed into the eastern Mediterranean and its two pilots are missing.

.....

Mr Erdogan spoke of Turkey's "rage" at the decision to shoot down the F-4 Phantom on 22 June and described Syria as a "clear and present threat".

"A short-term border violation can never be a pretext for an attack," he said. The Turkish jet was on a training flight, testing Turkey's radars in the eastern Mediterranean, he said.

He made it clear that Turkey was adopting a "common sense" attitude, although that "shouldn't be perceived as a weakness".

"Every military element approaching Turkey from the Syrian border and representing a security risk and danger will be assessed as a military threat and will be treated as a military target," he said.

Turkey requested a meeting of the alliance's ambassadors in Brussels after invoking Article 4 of Nato's founding treaty, which entitles any member state to ask for consultations if it believes its security is threatened.

'Disregard for international norms'

In a statement, the alliance's 28 members said the shooting down of the plane was "unacceptable" and they stood together with Turkey "in the spirit of strong solidarity".

Nato Secretary General Anders Fogh Rasmussen said: "It is another example of the Syrian authorities' disregard for international norms. Nato allies will remain seized of developments."

Earlier, in a letter to the UN Security Council, Turkey described the shooting down of its reconnaissance plane as a "hostile act" and "a serious threat to peace and security in the region".
.....


Full article here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-18584872
"We have it in our power to begin the world over again"

Valmy

Huh? That article is from June 2012...oh I get it.
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

Martinus

Quote from: lustindarkness on November 24, 2015, 11:23:04 AM
My first image when I read the thread title was a thanksgiving turkey (silly pilgrim hat and all) with a rocket launcher.

On topic, this could get interesting.
:lol:

Martinus

Quote from: Hamilcar on November 24, 2015, 12:12:00 PM
Putin has basically called out Turkey for profiting from ISIS oil and supporting them.

I gotta say, I know that Turkey is a NATO ally but I don't know which side I despise more.

Martinus

Quote from: alfred russel on November 24, 2015, 12:37:10 PM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on November 24, 2015, 12:20:41 PM
This is also being discussed over in the main ISIS thread btw.

As I said there, if that map is accurate then the Russian flight time in Turkish airspace can only have been a few seconds.

Think about all the favorite languish topics of discussion this touches on:

Erdogan
Putin
General Military Shit
ISIS
NATO

If it turns out one of the russian pilots was homosexual, this will be the holy grail of languish topics, and likely be mentioned in every thread we have.

Siegy's singularity may be closer than we think.

Martinus

Quote from: alfred russel on November 24, 2015, 01:19:25 PM
Quote from: Richard Hakluyt on November 24, 2015, 12:41:16 PM
Just so long as none of them took yoga classes, if that is the case then anything could happen.

A Russian colleague of mine (based in Moscow) discovered I was taking yoga classes a while back. She couldn't wrap her head around a straight guy doing yoga. I think she eventually decided I was only there to perv on the women in the class.

WTF. You do yoga? Wow. My mental image of Dorsey is shattered.

Valmy

Quote from: Martinus on November 24, 2015, 02:57:58 PM
WTF. You do yoga? Wow. My mental image of Dorsey is shattered.

Huh? He is an adventure rock climber. That is exactly the sort of straight man that does Yoga
Quote"This is a Russian warship. I propose you lay down arms and surrender to avoid bloodshed & unnecessary victims. Otherwise, you'll be bombed."

Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

Martinus

Quote from: Valmy on November 24, 2015, 02:52:46 PM
Huh? That article is from June 2012...oh I get it.

monger is just being his old traitorous self. :P