Turkey shoots down Russian fighter jet

[alfred russel]

This is also being discussed over in the main ISIS thread btw.

As I said there, if that map is accurate then the Russian flight time in Turkish airspace can only have been a few seconds.

Think about all the favorite languish topics of discussion this touches on:

Erdogan
Putin
General Military Shit
ISIS
NATO

If it turns out one of the russian pilots was homosexual, this will be the holy grail of languish topics, and likely be mentioned in every thread we have.

[Richard Hakluyt]

Just so long as none of them took yoga classes, if that is the case then anything could happen.

[KRonn]

News is saying both Russian fighter bomber pilots are dead, shot at as they descending in parachutes. I heard audio of shooters on the ground yelling and shooting. Also video of the savages desecrating the body of at least one of the pilots. I'm sure Russians will be pissed about it, heck I'm pretty pissed about it. IMO Turkey needed to think this through, the implications, of a Russian plane briefly passing through their air space while maneuvering for bombing runs. Was it really a threat to Turkey that they needed to respond with lethal force? And what may result from a shoot down. Now the Russians certainly will want to respond in kind.

[alfred russel]

Just so long as none of them took yoga classes, if that is the case then anything could happen.

A Russian colleague of mine (based in Moscow) discovered I was taking yoga classes a while back. She couldn't wrap her head around a straight guy doing yoga. I think she eventually decided I was only there to perv on the women in the class.

[alfred russel]

News is saying both Russian fighter bomber pilots are dead, shot at as they descending in parachutes. I heard audio of shooters on the ground yelling and shooting. Also video of the savages desecrating the body of at least one of the pilots. I'm sure Russians will be pissed about it, heck I'm pretty pissed about it. IMO Turkey needed to think this through, the implications, of a Russian plane briefly passing through their air space while maneuvering for bombing runs. Was it really a threat to Turkey that they needed to respond with lethal force? And what may result from a shoot down. Now the Russians certainly will want to respond in kind.

It is possible the guys on the ground were not under Turkish control. I haven't taken the time to develop a comprehensive list, but in my preliminary rankings of "places I don't want to parachute into", Northern Syria is quite high at the moment.

[Razgovory]

Great, it looks like they fell in the territory of the rebels we've been helping.

[DGuller]

News is saying both Russian fighter bomber pilots are dead, shot at as they descending in parachutes. I heard audio of shooters on the ground yelling and shooting. Also video of the savages desecrating the body of at least one of the pilots. I'm sure Russians will be pissed about it, heck I'm pretty pissed about it. IMO Turkey needed to think this through, the implications, of a Russian plane briefly passing through their air space while maneuvering for bombing runs. Was it really a threat to Turkey that they needed to respond with lethal force? And what may result from a shoot down. Now the Russians certainly will want to respond in kind.

Sometimes you have to drive the point home that you're a sovereign nation.  Russians seemed to have a very fluid understanding of other countries' borders lately.

[alfred russel]

Great, it looks like they fell in the territory of the rebels we've been helping.

I don't think anyone is deluded into thinking there are "good guy" factions with western european / american values to support.

But, while strategically important and significant, in some ways turkey is the most unfortunate nato member.

[Solmyr]

Great, it looks like they fell in the territory of the rebels we've been helping.

Yeah, and the ones Russia was bombing.

[Barrister]

Great, it looks like they fell in the territory of the rebels we've been helping.

I don't think anyone is deluded into thinking there are "good guy" factions with western european / american values to support.

But, while strategically important and significant, in some ways turkey is the most unfortunate nato member.

I dunno - they're probably the most useful member after the US, and maybe France.

[Solmyr]

Some pro-Western Russian bloggers are writing that this has caught Kremlin totally off-guard, and Putin has not made a statement for hours after the incident (which is usually a sign of him being unprepared). Compare to the Paris attacks when Putin offered condolences very quickly. Also, this essentially calls Putin's nuclear bluff; the rhetoric for the home audience has been "we'll turn the US into nuclear waste if there is a conflict with NATO", and now it will be shown to be so many empty words.

[mongers]

Erdogan got the Russian scalp he was looking for?

[Legbiter]

Now the Russians certainly will want to respond in kind.

Putin will certainly give the Turkmen rebels a lot of extra attention via the Russian air force from now on.

[KRonn]

Great, it looks like they fell in the territory of the rebels we've been helping.

Yeah, and the ones Russia was bombing.

Here's my take on things. I doubt if the guys the US/West has been helping are much better than ISIS, including the guys who shot up Russkie pilots. If they were to get control of Syria I have to assume it'll be their brand of extremism. A few years ago when the Syrian civil war started and ISIS and other radicals supposedly weren't as big a part of the opposition to Assad, then maybe there were actually "moderates" in force and a good reason to support them. But even then the US claim was that we couldn't tell who was who so didn't do much. Now that so many more rebels of the extremist persuasion have joined the cause, now we seem to be a lot more active in arming rebels and continued insistence on ousting Assad. I figure once he goes then Syria becomes another Libya or Yemen, failed state.

[The Larch]

I assume this was a 'straw that broke the camel's back' situation. That is, that the Russians were needling the Turks with violations, until the Turks basically said 'next time they do it, then POW!'.

Apparently Russia had been violating Turkish airspace for well over a month already, and there had been previous incidents which didn't come to light when Turkish jets had to scramble because of Russian planes entering, as well as unidentified Migs (either Russian or Syrian) harassing Turkish jets. This is the first incident with real firepower involved, though.