Turkey shoots down Russian fighter jet

[Liep]

Maybe now they'll also stay out of Swedish and Danish airspace!

[Malthus]

Maybe now they'll also stay out of Swedish and Danish airspace!

I don't think the Turks fly that far. 

[DGuller]

Maybe now they'll also stay out of Swedish and Danish airspace!

I don't think the Turks fly that far. 

[Liep]

Maybe now they'll also stay out of Swedish and Danish airspace!

I don't think the Turks fly that far. 

We need to oust our social democratic overlords and install an Erdogan type figure to create a Scandinavian empire that won't think twice about shooting down a Russian plane into the Baltic.

[alfred russel]

Great, it looks like they fell in the territory of the rebels we've been helping.

I don't think anyone is deluded into thinking there are "good guy" factions with western european / american values to support.

But, while strategically important and significant, in some ways turkey is the most unfortunate nato member.

I dunno - they're probably the most useful member after the US, and maybe France.

The UK?

But yes, while enormously useful, also led by Erdogan. Is what they bring to the table worth bringing to the table someone who doesn't really qualify as one of the good guys?

In the Cold War, Turkey in NATO was a no brainer. Not so sure anymore, but you can't really kick them out either.

[mongers]

Great, it looks like they fell in the territory of the rebels we've been helping.

Yeah, and the ones Russia was bombing.

Here's my take on things. I doubt if the guys the US/West has been helping are much better than ISIS, including the guys who shot up Russkie pilots. If they were to get control of Syria I have to assume it'll be their brand of extremism. A few years ago when the Syrian civil war started and ISIS and other radicals supposedly weren't as big a part of the opposition to Assad, then maybe there were actually "moderates" in force and a good reason to support them. But even then the US claim was that we couldn't tell who was who so didn't do much. Now that so many more rebels of the extremist persuasion have joined the cause, now we seem to be a lot more active in arming rebels and continued insistence on ousting Assad. I figure once he goes then Syria becomes another Libya or Yemen, failed state.

Yes, it's not good is it, Kronn.

And the civil war still has the potential to get a lot, lot worse, judging by historical standards and I mean by that proportionally less military and rebel deaths and a lot more civilian deaths. That based on the until recent breakdown* of casualties of around 30%military,30% rebel and 40% civilians killed in the war.



* based on what the Syrian human rights observatory was reporting.

[Razgovory]

Great, it looks like they fell in the territory of the rebels we've been helping.

Yeah, and the ones Russia was bombing.

Oh, the twisted webs we weave.  The US and Russia are not only arming opposing forces but actively attacking those forces.  Nobody would have done something this stupid in the Cold War.

[mongers]

Erdogan comments on the shooting down.

Turkish plane that reportedly strayed into its territory.

PM Recep Tayyip Erdogan told parliament that if Syrian troops approached Turkey's borders, they would be seen as a military threat.

Meanwhile Nato has expressed its condemnation of Syria's attack as well as strong support for Turkey.

Syria insists the F-4 Phantom jet was shot down inside Syrian airspace.

The plane crashed into the eastern Mediterranean and its two pilots are missing.

.....

Mr Erdogan spoke of Turkey's "rage" at the decision to shoot down the F-4 Phantom on 22 June and described Syria as a "clear and present threat".

"A short-term border violation can never be a pretext for an attack," he said. The Turkish jet was on a training flight, testing Turkey's radars in the eastern Mediterranean, he said.

He made it clear that Turkey was adopting a "common sense" attitude, although that "shouldn't be perceived as a weakness".

"Every military element approaching Turkey from the Syrian border and representing a security risk and danger will be assessed as a military threat and will be treated as a military target," he said.

Turkey requested a meeting of the alliance's ambassadors in Brussels after invoking Article 4 of Nato's founding treaty, which entitles any member state to ask for consultations if it believes its security is threatened.

'Disregard for international norms'

In a statement, the alliance's 28 members said the shooting down of the plane was "unacceptable" and they stood together with Turkey "in the spirit of strong solidarity".

Nato Secretary General Anders Fogh Rasmussen said: "It is another example of the Syrian authorities' disregard for international norms. Nato allies will remain seized of developments."

Earlier, in a letter to the UN Security Council, Turkey described the shooting down of its reconnaissance plane as a "hostile act" and "a serious threat to peace and security in the region".
.....

Full article here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-18584872

[Valmy]

Huh? That article is from June 2012...oh I get it.

[Martinus]

My first image when I read the thread title was a thanksgiving turkey (silly pilgrim hat and all) with a rocket launcher.

On topic, this could get interesting.

[Martinus]

Putin has basically called out Turkey for profiting from ISIS oil and supporting them.

I gotta say, I know that Turkey is a NATO ally but I don't know which side I despise more.

[Martinus]

This is also being discussed over in the main ISIS thread btw.

As I said there, if that map is accurate then the Russian flight time in Turkish airspace can only have been a few seconds.

Think about all the favorite languish topics of discussion this touches on:

Erdogan
Putin
General Military Shit
ISIS
NATO

If it turns out one of the russian pilots was homosexual, this will be the holy grail of languish topics, and likely be mentioned in every thread we have.

Siegy's singularity may be closer than we think.

[Martinus]

Just so long as none of them took yoga classes, if that is the case then anything could happen.

A Russian colleague of mine (based in Moscow) discovered I was taking yoga classes a while back. She couldn't wrap her head around a straight guy doing yoga. I think she eventually decided I was only there to perv on the women in the class.

WTF. You do yoga? Wow. My mental image of Dorsey is shattered.

[Valmy]

WTF. You do yoga? Wow. My mental image of Dorsey is shattered.

Huh? He is an adventure rock climber. That is exactly the sort of straight man that does Yoga

[Martinus]

Huh? That article is from June 2012...oh I get it.

monger is just being his old traitorous self.