The Paris Attack Debate Thread

[Baron von Schtinkenbutt]

Although maybe I should be concerned that Ernst Blofeld Rick Scott didn't.  Who knows what villainous scheme he has planned?

He plans to send them all to Liberty City, Overtown, and Miami Gardens.

[The Minsky Moment]

No, I have grief with people who insist their their exceptional god requires that others behave in a certain way, and use either force or the coercion of the state to enforce those beliefs.  Don't want to take birth control because you think your god forbids it?  Knock yourself out.  Force others to forgo birth control because you think your god forbids them?  You've crossed the line, and I oppose that religious belief.

Ok no argument there.

[The Minsky Moment]

People who think Washington chopped down the cherry tree are objectively incorrect.

True but then take the Socrates we read about in Plato, in Xenophon, and in Aristophanes.

[The Minsky Moment]

I would agree that it is largely pointless to argue about whether theists all believe in the same god or different gods - it just kind of annoys from a logical standpoint.

A "thing", whatever it is -  god, table, idea, whatever - has attributes that define it. The label we give it is NOT an attribute, it is just a label.

To say that a thing exists, is to say that some object with a set of attributes exists.

Fine so define God to be an omnipotent being that created the universe.  No other known attributes.
Now the argument against can't be simply that Hannah and Mary and Aisha tell different stories about it.

[Tonitrus]

I think we're ignoring the most important question...

Does God need a starship, or not?

[jimmy olsen]

Government shutdown coming over the refugee issue?

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2015/11/the_political_fight_over_syrian_refugees_is_getting_nuts.html

[Razgovory]

Poor Berkut, he's gone full Viking.  Never go full Viking.

[Savonarola]

It wasn't clear to me from the article that the law would only apply to people with dual citizenship.

I thought it was clear in the BBC article. Turning people stateless is illegal under international conventions, though not mentioned in the article.

It wasn't clear to me either; and I'm hardly an expert in international law.

Just out of curiosity what does the "State of Emergency" that's been declared in France mean in practical terms?  Hollande wants to extend it for three months, is that likely to happen?

[grumbler]

People who think Washington chopped down the cherry tree are objectively incorrect.

True but then take the Socrates we read about in Plato, in Xenophon, and in Aristophanes.

Okay.

[Drakken]

Just out of curiosity what does the "State of Emergency" that's been declared in France mean in practical terms?  Hollande wants to extend it for three months, is that likely to happen?

Oh yes, it is likely to happen. Hollande is now steering the ship all starboard, ahoy.

Among the propositions on the table, bi-nationals "born-French" will be dispossessed of their citizenship in case of terrorism, foreign borns who present a threat to national security quickly deported, and a "National Guard" made of reservists of the Armed Forces will be mobilized. Also, constitutional changes will be proposed, which will have to be ratified either by a session of congress or a referendum, but the tenants of this reform haven't been made public yet.

[grumbler]

I think we're ignoring the most important question...

Does God need a starship, or not?

A more important question: if god is omnipotent, can he microwave a burrito so hot that even he cannot eat it?

[Drakken]

A more important question: if god is omnipotent, can he microwave a burrito so hot that even he cannot eat it?

I doubt a burrito can even remotely withstand 1.416785(71)×1032 K, which is theorically absolute heat, let alone the heat of Sun and stars which God, if he has created them without machinery, can logically withstand.

God 1, burrito 0.

[viper37]

Just out of curiosity what does the "State of Emergency" that's been declared in France mean in practical terms?  Hollande wants to extend it for three months, is that likely to happen?

Oh yes, it is likely to happen. Hollande is now steering the ship all starboard, ahoy.

Among the propositions on the table, bi-nationals "born-French" will be dispossessed of their citizenship in case of terrorism, foreign borns who present a threat to national security quickly deported, and a "National Guard" made of reservists of the Armed Forces will be mobilized. Also, constitutional changes will be proposed, which will have to be ratified either by a session of congress or a referendum, but the tenants of this reform haven't been made public yet.

Basically Hollande is a full 180 degrees to Trudeau.  Will we have to suffer such a tragedy before our PM and his supporters understand?

[Duque de Bragança]

Just out of curiosity what does the "State of Emergency" that's been declared in France mean in practical terms?  Hollande wants to extend it for three months, is that likely to happen?

Oh yes, it is likely to happen. Hollande is now steering the ship all starboard, ahoy.

Among the propositions on the table, bi-nationals "born-French" will be dispossessed of their citizenship in case of terrorism, foreign borns who present a threat to national security quickly deported, and a "National Guard" made of reservists of the Armed Forces will be mobilized. Also, constitutional changes will be proposed, which will have to be ratified either by a session of congress or a referendum, but the tenants of this reform haven't been made public yet.

The propositions Drakken mentions are included in a Security Pact proposed by Hollande which would require amending the Consitution. Needs 2/3 majority so the conservatives would have to agree. Not impossible during an Union nationale phase.
As for the State of Emergency, it's one step below State of Siege and gives more powers to the authorities i.e préfets and Interior minister, in security matters. To extend it to three months, there needs to be a law, otherwise it can't be more than 12 days.

Examples of increased powers:

House arrest without judgement
departure order
establishment of safety zones where the presence of certain people can be restricted
closure of concert venues and meeting halls
traffic prohibitions
search orders day and night can be ordered by préfets or the Interior minister
ordering surrenders of war, self-defense and hunting weapons
special censorship powers

interdiction de circulation des personnes et des véhicules ; institution de zones de sécurité à l'intérieur desquelles le séjour de certaines personnes peut être réglementé ; interdiction de séjour. Aussi de nouveaux pouvoirs sont-ils donnés au ministre de l'Intérieur : assignation à résidence de toute personne dont l'activité se révèle dangereuse pour la sécurité et l'ordre publics des circonscriptions territoriales où s'applique l'état d'urgence ; fermeture de salles de spectacle et de tous les lieux de réunion ; éventuellement interdiction de toute réunion de nature à provoquer le désordre ; remise des armes de guerre, de défense (revolvers, pistolets), de chasse. Des dispositions expresses du décret déclarant ou de la loi prorogeant l'état d'urgence peuvent de plus conférer au ministre de l'Intérieur ou aux préfets le pouvoir d'ordonner des perquisitions de jour et de nuit et les habiliter à prendre toutes mesures pour assurer le contrôle de la presse, de toutes publications et des émissions radiophoniques. Elles permettent aussi au gouvernement d'user du droit de réquisition que prévoit la loi de 1938 touchant l'organisation de la nation en temps de guerre. Un décret peut également autoriser la juridiction militaire à se saisir des crimes ainsi que des délits qui leur sont connexes, relevant de la cour d'assises.

PS: from Encyclopaedia Universalis, not French Wikipedia.

[Drakken]

I'm fairly certain ultimately changes to the Constitution will be more important than merely expanding "states of security" to three months. If Hollande needs UMP LR and FN backing his package, I predict he will probably have to assent to more radical-leaning amendements.