Soon illegal to perform private paternity tests in Germany?

[Drakken]

http://health.taragana.net/articles/germany-bans-secret-paternity-tests-as-part-of-new-law-on-genetics-use-on-humans-2/


WTF is going wrong in Germany and their silly laws, lately? Do you compensate for your ingrained need to create another World War or invade your neighbors?

Like sure, the mother will agree to the paternity test if putative daddy is asking for one... are you nuts?!

BERLIN — The German parliament approved legislation Friday limiting the use of genetic testing in an effort to prevent the technology's abuse.

The law, which was debated for more than seven years, must still go before the upper house of parliament, but it is not expected to meet any resistance.

Under the law, genetic tests can only be carried out by a doctor and require the full consent of all parties involved. That makes it illegal to conduct anonymous paternity tests and anyone found in violation could be fined up to euro5,000 ($6,525).

The law further limits the use of genetic testing on fetuses to purely medical purposes, meaning parents are prohibited from using it to determine the sex of their unborn children. In addition it prohibits the use of genetic testing for indications of a predisposition to illnesses that appear only later in life, such as breast cancer or diseases of the nervous system.

The law also addresses dissemination of information obtained through genetic testing, including preventing employers and health insurance companies from demanding an employee or potential client undergo a genetic test or accessing results from previous tests.

[Slargos]

Insane.

[Valmy]

Since Germans don't have babies anymore this is not going to be effecting very many people anyway.

[Martinus]

Errr... how is it insane?

Are you guys saying that it should be legal for someone to get a DNA sample of another person and perform a genetic screening test on that sample without that person's consent? That would be a massive breach of privacy.

[Admiral Yi]

Errr... how is it insane?

Are you guys saying that it should be legal for someone to get a DNA sample of another person and perform a genetic screening test on that sample without that person's consent? That would be a massive breach of privacy.

I think Drakken is saying if the husband suspects his wife of humping the milkman he should be able to test the kid without her permission.

[Drakken]

Errr... how is it insane?

Are you guys saying that it should be legal for someone to get a DNA sample of another person and perform a genetic screening test on that sample without that person's consent? That would be a massive breach of privacy.

First, this is not "another person", but one's child, so obviously he or she is a minor and thus as tutor until proved otherwise, the putative father has every right to request a DNA test. Otherwise it is the door is open for paternity fraud.

Second, I am saying that a putative father should legally have the right to request a paternity test without the consent of the mother, because no mother in this world will accept to lose her fat daddy cashbag unless forced by the courts at the point of the bayonet.

[Valmy]

Errr... how is it insane?

Are you guys saying that it should be legal for someone to get a DNA sample of another person and perform a genetic screening test on that sample without that person's consent? That would be a massive breach of privacy.

Yes it should be legal for parents to breach the privacy of their own children before age 18.  I think a man has a right to know if a child is his child or not.  Surely fathers have some rights yes?  If you have lots of legal responsibilities as a father you should have some rights as well.

[Syt]

Surely fathers have some rights yes?

[Martinus]

Errr... how is it insane?

Are you guys saying that it should be legal for someone to get a DNA sample of another person and perform a genetic screening test on that sample without that person's consent? That would be a massive breach of privacy.

I think Drakken is saying if the husband suspects his wife of humping the milkman he should be able to test the kid without her permission.

I think it's a misconception. First of all, when it says "all parties involved", I am assuming it means the people whose genetic material is being tested - so unless you want to also take the wife's DNA for the test, you should be fine with just yours and your kid's without her consent (not sure how the issue of consent is addressed in case of minors, but that's another issue whatsoever).

Also, I assume this means out-of-court, anonymous tests. I presume he can still file a lawsuit in which such tests would be allowed.

[Drakken]

Errr... how is it insane?

Are you guys saying that it should be legal for someone to get a DNA sample of another person and perform a genetic screening test on that sample without that person's consent? That would be a massive breach of privacy.

I think Drakken is saying if the husband suspects his wife of humping the milkman he should be able to test the kid without her permission.

I think it's a misconception. First of all, when it says "all parties involved", I am assuming it means the people whose genetic material is being tested - so unless you want to also take the wife's DNA for the test, you should be fine with just yours and your kid's without her consent (not sure how the issue of consent is addressed in case of minors, but that's another issue whatsoever).

Also, I assume this means out-of-court, anonymous tests. I presume he can still file a lawsuit in which such tests would be allowed.

The problem is that the window to contest a paternity is very short. Here in Quebec it is two years for non-married couples and zero seconds for married ones.

So unless the father is able to request a DNA test very fast or he takes a hairlock and heads to a private laboratory, the judicial process makes it unlikely to obtain such a permission from the court. And of course, the mother will fight tooth and nail against it, with appeals and such.

[Martinus]

Errr... how is it insane?

Are you guys saying that it should be legal for someone to get a DNA sample of another person and perform a genetic screening test on that sample without that person's consent? That would be a massive breach of privacy.

First, this is not "another person", but one's child, so obviously he or she is a minor and thus as tutor until proved otherwise, the putative father has every right to request a DNA test. Otherwise it is the door is open for paternity fraud.

Not really, no. Parental authority must always be exercised in the interest of the child. I fail to see how in this case the father "consenting" to such sample being taken is acting in the interest of the child. It's akin to a father "consenting" to the kid giving him away its personal assets (e.g. obtained via inheritance) - this would be illegal, too.

Second, I am saying that a putative father should legally have the right to request a paternity test without the consent of the mother, because no mother in this world will accept to lose her fat daddy cashbag unless forced by the courts at the point of the bayonet.

The article is talking about "private tests". I assume this means outside of legal proceedings. If he files a lawsuit, and the court orders such tests to be made, I assume this is not considered a "private test".

[Josquius]

Seems rational.
Unsure which side I'd fall on but its a fairly sane law.

[Martinus]

Errr... how is it insane?

Are you guys saying that it should be legal for someone to get a DNA sample of another person and perform a genetic screening test on that sample without that person's consent? That would be a massive breach of privacy.

Yes it should be legal for parents to breach the privacy of their own children before age 18.  I think a man has a right to know if a child is his child or not.  Surely fathers have some rights yes?  If you have lots of legal responsibilities as a father you should have some rights as well.

Again as I said, parental authority must always be exercised in the interest of the child. In this case I fail to see this being done in the interest of the child, and as such can't see how this breach of privacy would be justified.

[Valmy]

I think it's a misconception. First of all, when it says "all parties involved", I am assuming it means the people whose genetic material is being tested - so unless you want to also take the wife's DNA for the test, you should be fine with just yours and your kid's without her consent (not sure how the issue of consent is addressed in case of minors, but that's another issue whatsoever).

Also, I assume this means out-of-court, anonymous tests. I presume he can still file a lawsuit in which such tests would be allowed.

Ok I thought you were talking about the privacy of the child which sounded bizarre.

[Martinus]

Errr... how is it insane?

Are you guys saying that it should be legal for someone to get a DNA sample of another person and perform a genetic screening test on that sample without that person's consent? That would be a massive breach of privacy.

I think Drakken is saying if the husband suspects his wife of humping the milkman he should be able to test the kid without her permission.

I think it's a misconception. First of all, when it says "all parties involved", I am assuming it means the people whose genetic material is being tested - so unless you want to also take the wife's DNA for the test, you should be fine with just yours and your kid's without her consent (not sure how the issue of consent is addressed in case of minors, but that's another issue whatsoever).

Also, I assume this means out-of-court, anonymous tests. I presume he can still file a lawsuit in which such tests would be allowed.

The problem is that the window to contest a paternity is very short. Here in Quebec it is two years for non-married couples and zero seconds for married ones.

So unless the father is able to request a DNA test very fast or he takes a hairlock and heads to a private laboratory, the judicial process makes it unlikely to obtain such a permission from the court. And of course, the mother will fight tooth and nail against it, with appeals and such.

I don't know what the situation really is in Quebec, but in most legal systems I am aware of, such deadlines are suspended once the legal process begins; in other words, if you have a statute of limitation for some claim, it means you are safe as long as you file a lawsuit within this period, irrespective of whether you manage to obtain a court ruling before the deadline or not.

It is there to ensure that private individuals are not punished for events beyond their control (such as the duration of the legal process). I would be surprised if it was different in Quebec.