Dept of Education declares that school must allow boy to shower with girls

[Martinus]

Throw off the shackles to express yourself sexually? Are you on drugs?

Touche. You can leave the dog collar and the leash on.

[Valmy]

Yeah I thought Marty was into a bit of light bondage.

Anyway I want no part of any of that. Monogamy is what I have wanted since I was a small child. I have always had exactly zero percent interest in other structures. I want a cozy home with a supporting family and a close intimate bond with my partner. That is me expressing myself. It is not for everybody but I find it pretty damn amazing.

[viper37]

Ok, let me ask a question to Tamas, Yi, Josephus, DGuller and the rest of the crowd here - do you guys question the objective existence of transgenderism as something that is inborn and "incurable"?

I will answer for myself.  I think it is inborn and incurable as of today.  Just like homosexuality.

I am not excluding that over time we could find the cause of transgenderism and maybe have a treatment, psychological or otherwise.  Just like homosexuality where some research are beginning to indicate a genetic factor.

While I do believe psychological, genetical and other research should be pursued to better understand the phenomenon, I do not believe, even if such treatments were 100% effective and without any side-effects should be forced on someone.  Though I suspect there could be family/social pressure into taking it.

I do think that there is a somewhat recent increase in transgender behavior (people identifying themselves as the opposite sex of their biology) and I am uncertain that the current situation where we encourage them to express their difference and eventually let them go to sex reassignment surgery is the right way to go, given that many seem to express regret.  Maybe there is a need for more psychological challenges before they reach that point, maybe they need to be confronted, shocked, whatever.  Maybe I am spouting crap too, that's possible, that's what you'll tell me anyway.  I just think we definately need more research to better understand these people in the long run.  In the mean time, seek accomodations based on the Vancouver school board's guidelines seems the proper attitude.  I'd hate to see an increase in teenage suicide because trans people feel untolerated.

[Martinus]

Yeah I thought Marty was into a bit of light bondage.

Anyway I want no part of any of that. Monogamy is what I have wanted since I was a small child. I have always had exactly zero percent interest in other structures. I want a cozy home with a supporting family and a close intimate bond with my partner. That is me expressing myself. It is not for everybody but I find it pretty damn amazing.

That's fine. I think we should get all flavours at the ice cream truck of human sexuality, and I actually do frequently choose vanilla. At ice cream trucks, not at sexuality, but I can appreciate the sentiment.

[Martinus]

Ok, let me ask a question to Tamas, Yi, Josephus, DGuller and the rest of the crowd here - do you guys question the objective existence of transgenderism as something that is inborn and "incurable"?

I will answer for myself.  I think it is inborn and incurable as of today.  Just like homosexuality.

I am not excluding that over time we could find the cause of transgenderism and maybe have a treatment, psychological or otherwise.  Just like homosexuality where some research are beginning to indicate a genetic factor.

While I do believe psychological, genetical and other research should be pursued to better understand the phenomenon, I do not believe, even if such treatments were 100% effective and without any side-effects should be forced on someone.  Though I suspect there could be family/social pressure into taking it.

I do think that there is a somewhat recent increase in transgender behavior (people identifying themselves as the opposite sex of their biology) and I am uncertain that the current situation where we encourage them to express their difference and eventually let them go to sex reassignment surgery is the right way to go, given that many seem to express regret.  Maybe there is a need for more psychological challenges before they reach that point, maybe they need to be confronted, shocked, whatever.  Maybe I am spouting crap too, that's possible, that's what you'll tell me anyway.  I just think we definately need more research to better understand these people in the long run.  In the mean time, seek accomodations based on the Vancouver school board's guidelines seems the proper attitude.  I'd hate to see an increase in teenage suicide because trans people feel untolerated.

I think it's a complex issue. I don't have a final view on this myself, but I get a sort of knee-jerk reaction to ignorance and bigotry.

[Josephus]

Ok, let me ask a question to Tamas, Yi, Josephus, DGuller and the rest of the crowd here - do you guys question the objective existence of transgenderism as something that is inborn and "incurable"?

No. I agree it's a real thing.

My issue with it is accommodation.  I can see how some girls and their parents would feel awkward if a "boy"...that is to say a human with a penis.. would use the same change room/ shower.

CC's Vancouver example, is something that is a fair compromise. But unless a separate room exists, then I think it's best for all if the "boy" used the men's changeroom.

[Eddie Teach]

and I actually do frequently choose vanilla.

[Valmy]

That's fine. I think we should get all flavours at the ice cream truck of human sexuality, and I actually do frequently choose vanilla. At ice cream trucks, not at sexuality, but I can appreciate the sentiment.

Yeah so leave me with my emotionally nurturing shackles

[Ed Anger]

Polish ice cream truck flavors:

Potato
Dead Jew

[Valmy]

I think it's a complex issue. I don't have a final view on this myself, but I get a sort of knee-jerk reaction to ignorance and bigotry.

Yeah I have no idea what is true and what isn't. I just figure we should not be assholes to people.

[Martinus]

I think it's a complex issue. I don't have a final view on this myself, but I get a sort of knee-jerk reaction to ignorance and bigotry.

Yeah I have no idea what is true and what isn't. I just figure we should not be assholes to people.

Yeah. I think we should minimise suffering. The transgendered kids probably have enough shit going on in their life. Like wondering whether to cut off their penis.

[Malthus]

I think India and Nepal also have the third gender. And some Polynesian cultures.

But I guess this is the curse of our culture. We like to be binary. Very manichean. Hell, even 90% of the entire gay liberation culture has been about pretending we are just like the straights.

Huh. I have known many people from Nepal and India and none of them have mentioned this before. But then how often does a gender category a tiny percentage of the population occupy come up in conversation?

Our culture is not unique to having two genders.

As far as gays pretending to be just like the straights well...when you raised by wolves you are going to resemble them at least a little bit surely?

Yeah, but we are different. We tend towards polyamory, or at least more unusual set ups - yet we settle for monogamy. Also, equating lesbians and gays is just a no-no - we are galaxies apart.

But I also agree with Bill Maher - after all the sexual liberation of the last decade, it's you, heterosexual folk, who get the short end of the stick - because we are free to express ourselves, but you guys are still stuck in your old Victorian expectations. Time to throw off the shackles and begin the new aeon. 

Heh, I have found it sorta amusing (if reasonably predictable) that the actual effect of actually liberating homosexuals from the culture of discrimination at the hands of the hetero majority has been - that the whole culture of gays as sexually promiscuous, adventurous outsiders has faded. More and more, it seems, they use their freedom to "want" to engage in stereotypical 'heteronormative' couples behavior that would do the Cleavers proud.  Gay marriage was, as it turned out, a two-edged thing - hell, I have a gay couple living two doors down, and they are so goddamned normal they make me look like a freak.  Even our Gay Pride Day Parade is basically a civic institution, becoming about as 'transgressive' as the Santa Claus Parade.

[Martinus]

And then there is NPH and David Burtka who do this kind of shit with their kids each year. It's so fucking obnoxiously sweet, it's annoying.

[Valmy]

Yeah. I think we should minimise suffering. The transgendered kids probably have enough shit going on in their life. Like wondering whether to cut off their penis.

Or get one added.

[Martinus]

Yeah. I think we should minimise suffering. The transgendered kids probably have enough shit going on in their life. Like wondering whether to cut off their penis.

Or get one added.

Yup. I wonder if a lot of trans people are sorta pressured into gender reassignment surgery.