Vatican sacks gay priest after highly public coming out

[The Brain]

Why?

So working for them is a no-no, but joining a club is A-ok?

It hasn't come to my attention that the Church of Sweden is a pedophile ring.

I haven't suggested that members who don't leave the Catholic Church over the Church being a pedophile ring are scum.

[Eddie Teach]

I haven't suggested that members who don't leave the Catholic Church over the Church being a pedophile ring are scum.

Neither are priests who don't cover for abusers.

[The Brain]

I haven't suggested that members who don't leave the Catholic Church over the Church being a pedophile ring are scum.

Neither are priests who don't cover for abusers.

If they don't quit their job I think they are.

[Martinus]

According to some studies, up to 1/3 of Catholic priests are gay.

I don't really doubt those numbers.  For people raised in a strongly religious community, in countries where there is active discrimination against gays, if discovered by their family, they'll be pushed toward priesthood to hide that shameful fact.
Others may join of their free will, for the same reason, they think prayer and discipline will keep them for sinning.

The Catholic church needs to own up to it and change its stance on gays if it wants this situation to change - Catholicism is more cultural than most other Christian creeds, so most young gay Catholics consider becoming priests (I knew I did) because the religion does not offer them any other respectable choice.

Yup. I don't know a gay man coming from a Catholic background who did not, at least at some point, contemplate becoming a priest. I don't think it is even as much being pushed by the family - usually this comes before they come out. Celibacy in fact provides a perfect "cover" (along with that, for other, less savory types too, such as pedophiles).

What situation does the Catholic Church wants to change?  Homosexuality is a sin, and priest must be celibate, that means, gay or hetero, no sex for a priest unless he was married before becoming a priest.

Actually, there is a lot of push back from some portions of the Catholic Church to change the stance on both homosexuality and celibacy. This is still a minority view (at least as far as the hierarchy is concerned) but it is gaining momentum, especially in the West. This is why there is a synod in Rome right now discussing these issues.

I can't see that changing anytime soon.  And I can't think any solution to the "gay problem" will come from the Church or any other Church.  It's up to society to evolve and distance itself from religion.  Then and only then will the Church change.  So long as the churches are filled to the brim and the coffers overflow, nothing will change.

The thing is, they aren't. At least not anymore. Even in Poland.

[Martinus]

I haven't suggested that members who don't leave the Catholic Church over the Church being a pedophile ring are scum.

Neither are priests who don't cover for abusers.

If they don't quit their job I think they are.

I am not sure I understand the distinction. 

[Martinus]

So, read his interview for Polish Newsweek. Quite a complex motivation, but I do not disagree or condemn his motives - essentially (in short) his position seems to be that the Church is mistaken on the issue of homosexuality and celibacy, but that does not mean he should quit the Church, being a priest and a man of faith.

I have a hard time disagreeing with this logic - after all, most great reformers and heretics of the Church (such as Luther) did not leave the church either (despite preaching stuff that was not consistent with the official doctrine) but rather were pushed out of it.

[dps]

I haven't suggested that members who don't leave the Catholic Church over the Church being a pedophile ring are scum.

Neither are priests who don't cover for abusers.

If they don't quit their job I think they are.

I am not sure I understand the distinction. 

Well, suppose that there is a business that has personnel policies you don't like, but sells products that you like at a what you consider a good, fair price.  You wouldn't work there, but you might very well remain a customer.

[The Brain]

I haven't suggested that members who don't leave the Catholic Church over the Church being a pedophile ring are scum.

Neither are priests who don't cover for abusers.

If they don't quit their job I think they are.

I am not sure I understand the distinction. 

I don't expect people to throw their religion away. I do expect them to quit a job.

[Razgovory]

I didn't expect the head of the physics department to quit because of the child molestation scandal at Penn State, but maybe I should.  Maybe I should.

[viper37]

I haven't suggested that members who don't leave the Catholic Church over the Church being a pedophile ring are scum.

Neither are priests who don't cover for abusers.

If they don't quit their job I think they are.

I am not sure I understand the distinction. 

I don't expect people to throw their religion away. I do expect them to quit a job.

is being a priest really a simple job?  Like an accountant or a clerk?

[Ideologue]

It's impossible to get by in modern society (or probably any society) without in some way or fashion supporting something evil.  So I just try not to directly cause evil.  Every job I've ever had has involved some kind of evil, whether it be the selling of animal flesh at restaurants or just the low-grade extortion or wastefulness of doc review.  Obviously, consuming virtually any good involves the indirect support of slave labor.

Brain maybe does have the job in a million that doesn't involve something bad.  We'll see if those casks crack, I guess.

[viper37]

The thing is, they aren't. At least not anymore. Even in Poland.

And in Quebec either.  But when it started to change, eventually, the Church had to adapt.

There is still strong opposition to euthanasia, but opposition to gay marriage has all but disapeared in the province.  Abortion is not even talked about anymore with the last of the old guard passing away.

Homophobia from the clergy is non existant and has been for many years.  A priest saying something along the lines of "all gays will burn in hell" would be shunned by the public and the press.

While divorcees where not officially authorized to participate in the communion and the Church still frowns on it, religious people in a very difficult relationship who consult a priest would likely (I know at least a few cases) be counseled to seek a divorce and get out of this marriage.

But none of this existed in the 50s.  Priests were doing their "rounds" visiting women in villages, telling them it was their sacred duty to have babies, to submit to their confugal duties.  No divorce would ever be advised, even for a woman with a violent husband.  A divorcee would be shunned by her local Church and community.  Protestantism wasn't really popular amongst french speakers.

[Martinus]

I haven't suggested that members who don't leave the Catholic Church over the Church being a pedophile ring are scum.

Neither are priests who don't cover for abusers.

If they don't quit their job I think they are.

I am not sure I understand the distinction. 

Well, suppose that there is a business that has personnel policies you don't like, but sells products that you like at a what you consider a good, fair price.  You wouldn't work there, but you might very well remain a customer.

But that analogy is completely inadequate when it comes to the Catholic Church, at least when we are talking about the motivation of a member of the Catholic Church. If you are Catholic, you believe that all Catholics are a part of universal church - both the clergy and the laymen.

[Martinus]

I don't expect people to throw their religion away. I do expect them to quit a job.

Priesthood is a holy sacrament, like marriage. "Quitting your job" as a priest is at least as "sinful" for a Catholic as getting divorced (or even more as priesthood is a marriage to God).

[Martinus]

Pope Francis Clarifies That God Just One Of Many Immortal Beings Who Speak To Him Every Day

VATICAN CITY—Explaining how he rarely goes more than an hour or two without hearing from one of them or another, Pope Francis revealed to reporters Tuesday that God is just one of many immortal beings who speak to him on a daily basis. "God is always there to listen to my prayers and provide spiritual guidance, but on any given day, there are maybe 15 or 20 other undying entities from beyond our world—Anubis, Quetzalcoatl, Freyja, you name it—who get in touch with me," said the bishop of Rome, adding that, over the course of a month, he communicates with hundreds of various deities, spirits, numina, naiads, dryads, and wraiths who come bearing some kind of important message or just check in to see how he's doing. "Sure, in my day-to-day job I serve as an earthly liaison for the Lord Our God. But to be honest, I don't talk to Him nearly as much as I do Hanuman or Nerrivik the Sea-Mother. Actually, I just finished up talking with Phobos and Deimos right before this—love those two." The pontiff added that while he typically enjoys the company, he's getting a little tired of having to listen to the endless whining of all the banshees who hang around him.

http://www.theonion.com/article/pope-francis-clarifies-god-just-one-many-immortal--51470