Piketty: Germany Has Never Paid Its Debts

[Razgovory]

There are plenty of countries of the size and budget of Greece that have managed to not spend themselves into bankruptcy. Hong Kong might not be a good comparison, but the point Mono is making is perfectly valid.

This is just another iteration of "too big too fail" where bad decisions that fuck everyone are made in the full knowledge that they will have terrible outcomes in the long run - but fuck it, let the people who will be in power then deal with it, we don't care.

It should be remembered that it was the crash in 2008, that actually bankrupted the country.  It may have gone bankrupt anyway, but the crash brought it down, along with quite a few other countries.  Oddly many of them small countries with small economies.

[Iormlund]

http://www.nasdaq.com/article/frances-hollande-eurozone-should-have-its-own-budget-parliament-20150714-00436

France's Hollande: Eurozone Should Have Its Own Budget, Parliament

PARIS--French President Francois Hollande said Tuesday he will make proposals for a eurozone government, after Greece came close to exiting the currency bloc in tense negotiations between European heads of state at the weekend.

In a television interview on France's Bastille Day holiday, Mr. Hollande said he will make a joint proposal with Germany to improve how the eurozone is governed.

"There must be an economic government for the eurozone," Mr. Hollande said.

The next step would be to create a budget for the eurozone and, ultimately, a parliament, he added.

Wait, what? The French have been the biggest obstacle for further integration.

Also I love how he proposes to create a government and a budget before a parliament. 

[Norgy]

There are plenty of countries of the size and budget of Greece that have managed to not spend themselves into bankruptcy. Hong Kong might not be a good comparison, but the point Mono is making is perfectly valid.

This is just another iteration of "too big too fail" where bad decisions that fuck everyone are made in the full knowledge that they will have terrible outcomes in the long run - but fuck it, let the people who will be in power then deal with it, we don't care.

It should be remembered that it was the crash in 2008, that actually bankrupted the country.  It may have gone bankrupt anyway, but the crash brought it down, along with quite a few other countries.  Oddly many of them small countries with small economies.

Oddly many run by parties with neo-liberal agendas too. Like Iceland and Ireland. While it may be a spurious connection, there is that.
However, Clinton is the one to blame for all this shit. 

[Iormlund]

There are plenty of countries of the size and budget of Greece that have managed to not spend themselves into bankruptcy. Hong Kong might not be a good comparison, but the point Mono is making is perfectly valid.

This is just another iteration of "too big too fail" where bad decisions that fuck everyone are made in the full knowledge that they will have terrible outcomes in the long run - but fuck it, let the people who will be in power then deal with it, we don't care.

I cant think of any other Euro countries that have suffered such a significant drop in GDP over such a short period of time.  Is there a good comparator?

Th Baltics experienced even worse drop of GDP all within a year, as a result of frontloading cuts. The differences are marked between both scenarios, though: smaller size, excellent timing of cuts, small financial sector, no prior debt from the Soviet era, private rather than public debt, much better (and trusted) governance ...

[Martinus]

There are plenty of countries of the size and budget of Greece that have managed to not spend themselves into bankruptcy. Hong Kong might not be a good comparison, but the point Mono is making is perfectly valid.

This is just another iteration of "too big too fail" where bad decisions that fuck everyone are made in the full knowledge that they will have terrible outcomes in the long run - but fuck it, let the people who will be in power then deal with it, we don't care.

I cant think of any other Euro countries that have suffered such a significant drop in GDP over such a short period of time.  Is there a good comparator?

Th Baltics experienced even worse drop of GDP all within a year, as a result of frontloading cuts. The differences are marked between both scenarios, though: smaller size, excellent timing of cuts, small financial sector, no prior debt from the Soviet era, private rather than public debt, much better (and trusted) governance ...

The key difference, of course, was that neither of them joined the Euro until after the crisis. So they could run very high inflation to get out of the domestic debt.

[Monoriu]

The key difference, of course, was that neither of them joined the Euro until after the crisis. So they could run very high inflation to get out of the domestic debt.

Really?  The Baltic currencies were already pegged to the Euro before the 08 crisis.  I doubt if they could just print money as much as they liked under such a system. 

[Martinus]

The key difference, of course, was that neither of them joined the Euro until after the crisis. So they could run very high inflation to get out of the domestic debt.

Really?  The Baltic currencies were already pegged to the Euro before the 08 crisis.  I doubt if they could just print money as much as they liked under such a system.

Quote about Lithuania (whose GDP dropped the most):

In December 2006 the government approved a new convergence plan, which pushed the expected adoption date to post-2010 due to inflation.[5] In 2007, Prime Minister Gediminas Kirkilas stated that he hoped for adoption around 2010–11.[6][7] Generally high inflation, which reached a peak of 12.7% in June 2008[8] (well above the 4.2% limit of the time),[9] delayed Lithuania's adoption of the euro. By the time of the 2010 European debt crisis, the expected switch over date had been put further back to 2014.[10] Lithuania expressed interest in a suggestion from the IMF that countries which are not able to meet the Maastricht criteria be able to "partially adopt" the euro, using the currency but not getting a seat at the European Central Bank.[11] Interviews with the Foreign Minister and Prime Minister in May and August 2012 respectively highlighted that Lithuania still aimed to join the euro, but would not set a target date until the state of the eurozone post-crisis was clear.[12][13]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithuania_and_the_euro

[Zanza]

That would suck - Europe of Two Speeds.

Europe already has many speeds...?

[Norgy]

Oh, just let the Nazis in again and get a proper unification.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

http://www.nasdaq.com/article/frances-hollande-eurozone-should-have-its-own-budget-parliament-20150714-00436

France's Hollande: Eurozone Should Have Its Own Budget, Parliament

PARIS--French President Francois Hollande said Tuesday he will make proposals for a eurozone government, after Greece came close to exiting the currency bloc in tense negotiations between European heads of state at the weekend.

In a television interview on France's Bastille Day holiday, Mr. Hollande said he will make a joint proposal with Germany to improve how the eurozone is governed.

"There must be an economic government for the eurozone," Mr. Hollande said.

The next step would be to create a budget for the eurozone and, ultimately, a parliament, he added.

Wait, what? The French have been the biggest obstacle for further integration.

Also I love how he proposes to create a government and a budget before a parliament. 

It's france trying to spend other people's money again.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

much better (and trusted) governance ...

and that's the crux of the matter: the greek state is shit. It's clientilism to the nth degree and the greek citizens act accordingly.
There won't be a solution until that changes.

[Norgy]

much better (and trusted) governance ...

and that's the crux of the matter: the greek state is shit. It's clientilism to the nth degree and the greek citizens act accordingly.
There won't be a solution until that changes.

I'd hope for some change with Syriza, but I doubt it. You are of course entirely right. Greece, in many ways, is a state that has failed.
The lenders didn't exactly do due diligence either.

[Ed Anger]

Oh, just let the Nazis in again and get a proper unification.