Gay Marriage Upheld by USSC in Close Ruling

[Martinus]

And I doubt it's completely over. Some states still don't protect LGBT from discrimination; and don't forget that some states rank freedom of religion higher than gay rights, so religious business owners and others can deny service to LGBT if it would violate their "deeply held beliefs".

To be honest, I am fine with it, unless we are dealing with an essential service or a de facto monopoly. I'm fine with there being tools to easily identify nitwits at a cost of a minor inconvenience.

[Martinus]

Incidentally, isn't this the fastest cultural war in US history? In 2004, when Massachussets was passing gay marriage, it seemed like a very long way to go - maybe a thing for our lifetime, but not necessarily. 11 years down the line, the question is over.

I think it goes a great deal further back than that.

Still, do you think it came faster than everybody thought 10 years ago?

[Valmy]

What am I looking at there Marty? Besides the White House's parking lot.

[Martinus]

What am I looking at there Marty? Besides the White House's parking lot.

Rainbow that just appeared over the White House.

[Malthus]

Incidentally, isn't this the fastest cultural war in US history? In 2004, when Massachussets was passing gay marriage, it seemed like a very long way to go - maybe a thing for our lifetime, but not necessarily. 11 years down the line, the question is over.

In the US, I don't think homophobia has real legs - the same thing happened in Canada: in my lifetime, in Toronto we went from gays being regularly beaten up by the cops to widespread social approval, to the mayor heading up the Pride Parade and advertising the city as a mecca for gay marriages. Conservatives have mostly turned to other issues - it has become more or less a non-issue.

Race, OTOH, is going to be a problem in the US for a very long time, I think.

[Valmy]

Incidentally, isn't this the fastest cultural war in US history? In 2004, when Massachussets was passing gay marriage, it seemed like a very long way to go - maybe a thing for our lifetime, but not necessarily. 11 years down the line, the question is over.

I think it goes a great deal further back than that.

Still, do you think it came faster than everybody thought 10 years ago?

When everybody was passing those state constitutional amendments keeping gay people from marrying I was concerned it would be a long struggle that would especially make Texas look bad. Very relieved it is over. The victory of the gays was inevitable and I am glad we were saved from years more of ridiculousness.

[Valmy]

Race, OTOH, is going to be a problem in the US for a very long time, I think.

Shocking!

[Martinus]

Incidentally, isn't this the fastest cultural war in US history? In 2004, when Massachussets was passing gay marriage, it seemed like a very long way to go - maybe a thing for our lifetime, but not necessarily. 11 years down the line, the question is over.

In the US, I don't think homophobia has real legs - the same thing happened in Canada: in my lifetime, in Toronto we went from gays being regularly beaten up by the cops to widespread social approval, to the mayor heading up the Pride Parade and advertising the city as a mecca for gay marriages. Conservatives have mostly turned to other issues - it has become more or less a non-issue.

Race, OTOH, is going to be a problem in the US for a very long time, I think.

Yup. I think it is because race is really a class issue under a different name (and a way for the elites to pit one part of the under class against another). For gays, the fact that it was cross-class was both a curse (initially) and a blessing (later on).

[garbon]

Incidentally, isn't this the fastest cultural war in US history? In 2004, when Massachussets was passing gay marriage, it seemed like a very long way to go - maybe a thing for our lifetime, but not necessarily. 11 years down the line, the question is over.

In the US, I don't think homophobia has real legs - the same thing happened in Canada: in my lifetime, in Toronto we went from gays being regularly beaten up by the cops to widespread social approval, to the mayor heading up the Pride Parade and advertising the city as a mecca for gay marriages. Conservatives have mostly turned to other issues - it has become more or less a non-issue.

Race, OTOH, is going to be a problem in the US for a very long time, I think.

While I agree that I don't think it'll have enduring longevity, it isn't like homophobia is something that first appeared in your life time.

[Admiral Yi]

And I doubt it's completely over. Some states still don't protect LGBT from discrimination; and don't forget that some states rank freedom of religion higher than gay rights, so religious business owners and others can deny service to LGBT if it would violate their "deeply held beliefs".

The difference being that whereas getting married is a right that all straights* enjoyed, "protected status" class for employment purposes is only granted to certain people.

*Monogamous ones

[Syt]

Incidentally, isn't this the fastest cultural war in US history? In 2004, when Massachussets was passing gay marriage, it seemed like a very long way to go - maybe a thing for our lifetime, but not necessarily. 11 years down the line, the question is over.

In the US, I don't think homophobia has real legs - the same thing happened in Canada: in my lifetime, in Toronto we went from gays being regularly beaten up by the cops to widespread social approval, to the mayor heading up the Pride Parade and advertising the city as a mecca for gay marriages. Conservatives have mostly turned to other issues - it has become more or less a non-issue.

I think most in most Western countries it will not be a highly contentious issue. I know people who are highly uncomfortably with gay topics, or make jokes about them, but even they say that of course they should be able to marry, have equal rights and should be protected from discrimination.

Arab countries, Slavic countries, ... that might be a longer, more uphill battle.

[Malthus]

Incidentally, isn't this the fastest cultural war in US history? In 2004, when Massachussets was passing gay marriage, it seemed like a very long way to go - maybe a thing for our lifetime, but not necessarily. 11 years down the line, the question is over.

In the US, I don't think homophobia has real legs - the same thing happened in Canada: in my lifetime, in Toronto we went from gays being regularly beaten up by the cops to widespread social approval, to the mayor heading up the Pride Parade and advertising the city as a mecca for gay marriages. Conservatives have mostly turned to other issues - it has become more or less a non-issue.

Race, OTOH, is going to be a problem in the US for a very long time, I think.

While I agree that I don't think it'll have enduring longevity, it isn't like homophobia is something that first appeared in your life time.

Of course not. What I meant was that we went from a default setting where society approved of homophobia (even to the point of condoning violence against gays) to a default setting where society dissaproves of homophobia. The homophobic default, of course, long predates me.

[garbon]

And I doubt it's completely over. Some states still don't protect LGBT from discrimination; and don't forget that some states rank freedom of religion higher than gay rights, so religious business owners and others can deny service to LGBT if it would violate their "deeply held beliefs".

The difference being that whereas getting married is a right that all straights* enjoyed, "protected status" class for employment purposes is only granted to certain people.

*Monogamous ones

Remind me to care when most people are "discriminated" against for an intrinsic part of themselves.

[garbon]

Incidentally, isn't this the fastest cultural war in US history? In 2004, when Massachussets was passing gay marriage, it seemed like a very long way to go - maybe a thing for our lifetime, but not necessarily. 11 years down the line, the question is over.

In the US, I don't think homophobia has real legs - the same thing happened in Canada: in my lifetime, in Toronto we went from gays being regularly beaten up by the cops to widespread social approval, to the mayor heading up the Pride Parade and advertising the city as a mecca for gay marriages. Conservatives have mostly turned to other issues - it has become more or less a non-issue.

Race, OTOH, is going to be a problem in the US for a very long time, I think.

While I agree that I don't think it'll have enduring longevity, it isn't like homophobia is something that first appeared in your life time.

Of course not. What I meant was that we went from a default setting where society approved of homophobia (even to the point of condoning violence against gays) to a default setting where society dissaproves of homophobia. The homophobic default, of course, long predates me.

Sure but then someone is always alive during transition periods.

[Malthus]

Sure but then someone is always alive during transition periods.

Well, yeah. It's not like I take credit for it.     It's just a reflection of how short the transition period has been - maybe 20 - 25 years or so. In terms of evolution of basic social attitudes, that's a blink of the eye.