The Off Topic Topic

[Grey Fox]

Jos, what's the car?

[Josquius]

Citroen c5. It's much too big and shit

It's a completely sensible stance to want a service and want the people doing the work to deliver it to be paid properly as standard.

You're saying you want all delivery customers to pay more for the service because it's the right thing to do, but you're unwilling to do the right thing unless everyone else is compelled to.

Theres lots of angles against this.

1: Why does just this person at the end of the chain deserve a living wage whilst all those in the supply chain behind him don't?

2: the promise of tips allows employers to lure people into jobs where otherwise they might have to pay them properly instead.

3: transparency for the client . The price should be the price. Be clear how it breaks down from the start. If everything is suddenly listed at £4 delivery then I've a free choice  to pay that much - and the businesses doing this get to attract workers better.

4: transparency for the driver. He should know up front what he is going to be paid. His salary shouldn't be a complete roll of the dice based on the situation of all his customers.

5: I start tipping heavily then that's maybe one guy a week who can buy a few extra groceries.
This does nothing to change the broader society and tackle the underlying issues. It's a plaster that helps to mask them.

[Razgovory]

6: Jos is a skinflint.

[Admiral Yi]

Theres lots of angles against this.

1: Why does just this person at the end of the chain deserve a living wage whilst all those in the supply chain behind him don't?

2: the promise of tips allows employers to lure people into jobs where otherwise they might have to pay them properly instead.

3: transparency for the client . The price should be the price. Be clear how it breaks down from the start. If everything is suddenly listed at £4 delivery then I've a free choice  to pay that much - and the businesses doing this get to attract workers better.

4: transparency for the driver. He should know up front what he is going to be paid. His salary shouldn't be a complete roll of the dice based on the situation of all his customers.

5: I start tipping heavily then that's maybe one guy a week who can buy a few extra groceries.
This does nothing to change the broader society and tackle the underlying issues. It's a plaster that helps to mask them.

1.  If he deserves it then we have no debate.  You believe he deserves it and are trying to convince everyone else that he and everyone else doing the job deserve it.  The problem is you have it in your power to give him what he deserves but do not.

2.  Money does not undergo a transformation when it comes from the employer's hand instead of yours.  There is no impact on the worker's bottom line if you pay a higher delivery fee and the employer pays a higher wage as opposed to you paying the worker directly.

3.  You have a free choice right now. 

4.  This is a reasonable point.  There are many jobs right now that have variable pay, obviously waiters and bartenders in the US, anyone working on sales commission, bonuses in finance.  But in these jobs there is the belief that there is some relationship between the extra money and the worker's effort or skill etc (or for bartenders how big your tits are).  Whereas in the case we are discussing it's a random draw.

5.  It doesn't do absolutely nothing to change broader society.  It models desireable behavior.  It provides an example of one person who is willing to put his money where his mouth is.

[mongers]

6: Jos is a skinflint.

 

I was just about to post that:

"Jos is just a skinflint, a proto-monger if you like"

 

[Barrister]

None of us, especially if you are not American, should be using Uber or Lyft or any other app based delivery services.

Their use harms your local companies and collaterally rob you of economic sovereignty.

Does your pronouncement include Canadian company Skip the Dishes (headquartered in Winnipeg)?  It seems to be the dominant food delivery service in Edmonton at least.

I approve of it for you! Not for me or Viper.

Because you don't have Skip the Dishes in Quebec?  Or because you do, but it's headquartered in Winnipeg?

[HVC]

Owned by a Dutch company

[Grey Fox]

None of us, especially if you are not American, should be using Uber or Lyft or any other app based delivery services.

Their use harms your local companies and collaterally rob you of economic sovereignty.

Does your pronouncement include Canadian company Skip the Dishes (headquartered in Winnipeg)?  It seems to be the dominant food delivery service in Edmonton at least.

I approve of it for you! Not for me or Viper.

Because you don't have Skip the Dishes in Quebec?  Or because you do, but it's headquartered in Winnipeg?

They offer their services in Quebec so, the 2nd reason. Altho, it's not Winnipeg's fault per se.

I gotta say tho, I've never use any of these services. I don't order food.

[Josquius]

6: Jos is a skinflint.

There is that too. Northern upbringing and my mental wealth level lags some way behind my actual wealth level. I'm still just a bad decision away from complete ruin in the back of my head.

Theres lots of angles against this.

1: Why does just this person at the end of the chain deserve a living wage whilst all those in the supply chain behind him don't?

2: the promise of tips allows employers to lure people into jobs where otherwise they might have to pay them properly instead.

3: transparency for the client . The price should be the price. Be clear how it breaks down from the start. If everything is suddenly listed at £4 delivery then I've a free choice  to pay that much - and the businesses doing this get to attract workers better.

4: transparency for the driver. He should know up front what he is going to be paid. His salary shouldn't be a complete roll of the dice based on the situation of all his customers.

5: I start tipping heavily then that's maybe one guy a week who can buy a few extra groceries.
This does nothing to change the broader society and tackle the underlying issues. It's a plaster that helps to mask them.

1.  If he deserves it then we have no debate.  You believe he deserves it and are trying to convince everyone else that he and everyone else doing the job deserve it.  The problem is you have it in your power to give him what he deserves but do not.

2.  Money does not undergo a transformation when it comes from the employer's hand instead of yours.  There is no impact on the worker's bottom line if you pay a higher delivery fee and the employer pays a higher wage as opposed to you paying the worker directly.

3.  You have a free choice right now. 

4.  This is a reasonable point.  There are many jobs right now that have variable pay, obviously waiters and bartenders in the US, anyone working on sales commission, bonuses in finance.  But in these jobs there is the belief that there is some relationship between the extra money and the worker's effort or skill etc (or for bartenders how big your tits are).  Whereas in the case we are discussing it's a random draw.

5.  It doesn't do absolutely nothing to change broader society.  It models desireable behavior.  It provides an example of one person who is willing to put his money where his mouth is.

1. I don't. A one off £5 is not going to make a change to anyone's life. The only way to do this is with a sustained boost in wages.

2: Reliability and fairness across the board.
Also a lot less uncomfortable and better for ones mental well being to be earning a fair wage rather than relying on the charity of random people who may not be so rich themselves.

3: no I don't. There's no just eats equivalent out there differentiating itself based on ethics and paying a living wage (that I know of).
There are some restaurants that do this but sadly they're few and far between. You usually can't rely on business to do the right thing just because, this is where the law comes in.

4: yes. Even for waiters with American style tipping I understand its not based on service and more just an automatic assumption. I've heard many tales of folk being chased down the street for not tipping highly for normal to naff service in an unspectacular cafe.

5: if I was somebody with a following then maybe. In a restaurant when it's all very visible and the tip is more fairly shared, where I would tip, then perhaps this comes into play with my kids.
But on an anonymous app I'd have to make an active effort to show off how I'm subsidising an exploitative employer to keep expoliting.

[Admiral Yi]

3. You have the choice to do delivery and tip, to do delivery and not tip, or to not do delivery.

5. You can model positive behavior.  You can influence us.

The rest, AFAICT is repeating points you've already made.

[Josquius]

With the talk of twitter going paywalled just imagine where the world would be without threads like this one where doctors discuss centaur anatomy.

https://twitter.com/fredwumd/status/1023034786393346048?s=46&t=rjfw5GC08SXt9YsevSumzw&fbclid=IwAR1Iiqi_QFSqdvmwPUk9FArd4GilQmhgEkT9eSBLqJgFEvscm8zxOQS55AA

[Sheilbh]

Rupert Murdoch stepping down to become Chairman Emeritus and handing over to his son, Lachlan.

His statement:
https://x.com/brianstelter/status/1704844314696675798?s=46&t=o9GOIj6BKKcLcHiyQTlAoA

[Syt]

Good? Bad? What kind of character is he?

[FunkMonk]

Rupert Murdoch stepping down to become Chairman Emeritus and handing over to his son, Lachlan.

His statement:
https://x.com/brianstelter/status/1704844314696675798?s=46&t=o9GOIj6BKKcLcHiyQTlAoA

Looks like Kendall won in real life.

[Sheilbh]

Although I always thought Lachlan was Roman