The Off Topic Topic

[Syt]

It's middle of August, so inevitably supermarkets have startes stocking Lebkuchen and similar baked goods generally associated with Christmas.

Billa decided to pre-empt complaints from customers:



"Yes, it's already available, and no, it shouldn't be a surprise this year, either."

[Josquius]

I heard an interesting analogy to day that makes a lot of sense- European colonial empires were much like modern tech startups.
Cool and trendy, attracted massive investment on the promise of vast wealth...most consistently made a loss and kept themselves going with constant investment and the promise of profitability soon.

[Maladict]

It'

It's middle of August, so inevitably supermarkets have startes stocking Lebkuchen and similar baked goods generally associated with Christmas.

I would be all over Lebkuchen in August, if they had them here.

[mongers]

I heard an interesting analogy to day that makes a lot of sense- European colonial empires were much like modern tech startups.
Cool and trendy, attracted massive investment on the promise of vast wealth...most consistently made a loss and kept themselves going with constant investment and the promise of profitability soon.

I don't think tech start ups routinely invade or attack countries, commit mass murder or enslaven whole races of people?

Josq, was it Marty who told you that analogy?

[Sheilbh]

I heard an interesting analogy to day that makes a lot of sense- European colonial empires were much like modern tech startups.
Cool and trendy, attracted massive investment on the promise of vast wealth...most consistently made a loss and kept themselves going with constant investment and the promise of profitability soon.

Not so sure I think it varies and it depends where and when and why.

The Caribbean colonies for example were hugely economically imoprtant to the UK and France (and supported capital accumulation that funded early industrialisation in the UK. Early empires in the Americas also helped fund European great power politics and socially important displays of wealth (eg Baroque, art patronage etc).

Other colonies served strategic rather than economic goals - especially in the 19th century with coaling/re-supply stations or being somewhere to stop someone else from being there as well as some resource extraction. But they were never really meant to be profitable. But it's like Hemingway's bankrupts - first slowly and then quickly - European powers need increasing economic justifications rather than purely strategic ones as they're building post-war societies, losing relative power globally and facing increasingly strong resistance from colonised peoples.

I think (I think I read this is in Sathnam Sanghera's book) in the case of the British Empire it basically broke even over all its territories and entire history, but obviously varies wildly.

I don't think tech start ups routinely invade or attack countries, commit mass murder or enslaven whole races of people?

Although East India Company, Royal Africa Company, Dutch East India Company etc - it is a part of how European imperialism started (and like many start-ups getting investment and trying to build up monopoly positions? ).

[Josquius]

Well yeah. An analogy for 400 years of history is never going to be perfect for every situation.
The context in which I heard it was quite new imperialism slanted.

As to your they were there to stop others profiting... It's the same with tech start ups too. Spend huge now to try and dominate so much and push out all competition so when profits eventually come you've got a captive market.
French West Africa =Uber :p

I heard an interesting analogy to day that makes a lot of sense- European colonial empires were much like modern tech startups.
Cool and trendy, attracted massive investment on the promise of vast wealth...most consistently made a loss and kept themselves going with constant investment and the promise of profitability soon.

I don't think tech start ups routinely invade or attack countries, commit mass murder or enslaven whole races of people?

Josq, was it Marty who told you that analogy?

Don't tell me you don't think Musk et al wouldn't commit a genocide or two if they felt it would actually help their balance sheet and not just be negative PR for no obvious gain

[Sheilbh]

Reading Rebecca West's book travelling through Yugoslavia.

Just started and she's talking about the first time she heard of Yugoslavia in reporting the assassination of the King in Marseille worrying it would lead to war, and praising the Yugoslav response avoiding provocations as an extraordinary bit of statesmanship in "post-war Europe". That was in 1934.

Edit: Feel like this books going to be a wild ride, literally to pages later about Empress Sophie of Austria: "she was also a great slut"

[Admiral Yi]

Don't tell me you don't think Musk et al wouldn't commit a genocide or two if they felt it would actually help their balance sheet and not just be negative PR for no obvious gain

I don't think Musk et al would commit a genocide or two if they felt it would actually help their balance sheet.

[HVC]

Don't tell me you don't think Musk et al wouldn't commit a genocide or two if they felt it would actually help their balance sheet and not just be negative PR for no obvious gain

I don't think Musk et al would commit a genocide or two if they felt it would actually help their balance sheet.

Bezos has the Bond villain look, so I wouldn't put it past him .  Isn't musk one of those super populate the earth weirdos? Killing large swaths of people would go against his master plan.

[frunk]

Bezos has the Bond villain look, so I wouldn't put it past him .  Isn't musk one of those super populate the earth weirdos? Killing large swaths of people would go against his master plan.

The subtext of the super populate people is usually to make sure it's the "right" kind of people, so that doesn't argue against it.

[HVC]

Bezos has the Bond villain look, so I wouldn't put it past him .  Isn't musk one of those super populate the earth weirdos? Killing large swaths of people would go against his master plan.

The subtext of the super populate people is usually to make sure it's the "right" kind of people, so that doesn't argue against it.

But the weak must support the strong through their toils.

[Jacob]

I don't think Musk et al would commit a genocide or two if they felt it would actually help their balance sheet.

Historically capital has been pretty willing to cause death and misery to maximize profit when it can get away with it. Of course not every capitalist or company, but a non-trivial amount. Maybe Musk et. al. would have enough of a moral compass to weight death and misery higher than profit when put to the test, maybe not.

For Musk specifically, I think the record on Tesla self-driving failures indicates that Musk prioritizes company interests over the lives of people. Not a strong indicator to be sure, but enough that "I wouldn't be surprised".

[Maladict]

Reading Rebecca West's book travelling through Yugoslavia.

Just started and she's talking about the first time she heard of Yugoslavia in reporting the assassination of the King in Marseille worrying it would lead to war, and praising the Yugoslav response avoiding provocations as an extraordinary bit of statesmanship in "post-war Europe". That was in 1934.

Edit: Feel like this books going to be a wild ride, literally to pages later about Empress Sophie of Austria: "she was also a great slut"

It's a great book, she certainly has her opinions 

[Sheilbh]

Historically capital has been pretty willing to cause death and misery to maximize profit when it can get away with it. Of course not every capitalist or company, but a non-trivial amount. Maybe Musk et. al. would have enough of a moral compass to weight death and misery higher than profit when put to the test, maybe not.

Tesla is very invested in China and as with any company wanting to operate in China, the Chinese state expect you to operate in Xinjiang to get your hands dirty (in Tesla's case a show room) and his major funding partner in buying Twitter was a Saudi prince (albeit one targeted by MBS).

Musk is not alone in that - I think there's probably no Western company as exposed in China as Apple, say. But he's certainly fine with the balance sheet dictating that he works with regimes that are pretty comfortable with death and misery.

[Jacob]

You make a good point.

It's fairly well established that China uses state-organized slave labour, and that some of that slave labour is there for fairly flimsy ethnicity/ religion driven reasons.

I don't know how implicated Tesla's Chinese operations and supply chains are in that slave labour, but I wouldn't be particularly surprised if they are.