The Off Topic Topic

[Sheilbh]

Like one of those freelance "opportunities" with no pay because it's "great for your profile"

[HVC]

It took me a few seconds to even remember who that was 

[The Brain]

I hear that Alec Baldwin is finally being charged with involuntary manslaughter. I know he's rich, white and famous and everything, but if he walks away I think it would be a scandal. I've always liked Alec Baldwin, but you don't shoot people.

My understanding is that he claims that he was told the gun wasn't loaded with live rounds. I've aimed a loaded SMG at a human and fired it, because I knew for a fact it was shooting blanks. I had prepared and loaded it myself. There's no way in hell you just accept a weapon from someone and don't check it yourself when it comes to stuff like this. Unless you're committing involuntary manslaughter...

[Josquius]

I hear that Alec Baldwin is finally being charged with involuntary manslaughter. I know he's rich, white and famous and everything, but if he walks away I think it would be a scandal. I've always liked Alec Baldwin, but you don't shoot people.

My understanding is that he claims that he was told the gun wasn't loaded with live rounds. I've aimed a loaded SMG at a human and fired it, because I knew for a fact it was shooting blanks. I had prepared and loaded it myself. There's no way in hell you just accept a weapon from someone and don't check it yourself when it comes to stuff like this. Unless you're committing involuntary manslaughter...

I guess our resident movie business supremo is the only one who'd know for sure but I imagine the situation between shooting for fun and being an actor on a film set would be pretty different. Can really see him just using what he's given.

[Jacob]

I hear that Alec Baldwin is finally being charged with involuntary manslaughter. I know he's rich, white and famous and everything, but if he walks away I think it would be a scandal. I've always liked Alec Baldwin, but you don't shoot people.

My understanding is that he claims that he was told the gun wasn't loaded with live rounds. I've aimed a loaded SMG at a human and fired it, because I knew for a fact it was shooting blanks. I had prepared and loaded it myself. There's no way in hell you just accept a weapon from someone and don't check it yourself when it comes to stuff like this. Unless you're committing involuntary manslaughter...

Well they have someone on set whose entire job is to make sure the guns are safe. Not every actor knows enough about guns to be personally responsible for ensuring they're safe (though perhaps Baldwin does and should).

From what I was reading at the time of the event, a significant factor here is that it was a cost-cutting production, filming in a location where they could avoid stricter regulations, and the armsmaster was not only fairly inexperienced but also doing double duty in some other role (which is a big no-no according to union rules, but this was of course a non-union production).

So IMO I personally think Baldwin should be held responsible, not because he's the actor pulling the trigger resulting in the accident - but because he's one of the major investors and producer who put together a production where safety procedures were inadequate. If Baldwin - as the major star and owner of the main production company putting together the film - had insisted on better safety practices, better safety practices would've been followed.

Yes, it's good gun user practice to personally verify the status of a gun before pulling the trigger (obviously), but a safety system that relies on actors inspecting dangerous props to verify they're safe is not going to work.

[frunk]

So IMO I personally think Baldwin should be held responsible, not because he's the actor pulling the trigger resulting in the accident - but because he's one of the major investors and producer who put together a production where safety procedures were inadequate. If Baldwin - as the major star and owner of the main production company putting together the film - had insisted on better safety practices, better safety practices would've been followed.

Yes, it's good gun user practice to personally verify the status of a gun before pulling the trigger (obviously), but a safety system that relies on actors inspecting dangerous props to verify they're safe is not going to work.

Yeah, I think that nails it.  Actors have to handle all sorts of situations where they don't necessarily have the experience/skills to properly verify its safety.  It's up to the production to cover for that lack and make sure the actors (or anyone else on the set) aren't put in a position that their ignorance is a risk.

Baldwin being in a dual role confuses the issue, but it is Baldwin the producer that is mainly at fault.

[The Brain]

I hear that Alec Baldwin is finally being charged with involuntary manslaughter. I know he's rich, white and famous and everything, but if he walks away I think it would be a scandal. I've always liked Alec Baldwin, but you don't shoot people.

My understanding is that he claims that he was told the gun wasn't loaded with live rounds. I've aimed a loaded SMG at a human and fired it, because I knew for a fact it was shooting blanks. I had prepared and loaded it myself. There's no way in hell you just accept a weapon from someone and don't check it yourself when it comes to stuff like this. Unless you're committing involuntary manslaughter...

I guess our resident movie business supremo is the only one who'd know for sure but I imagine the situation between shooting for fun and being an actor on a film set would be pretty different. Can really see him just using what he's given.

I'm sure that he did. Hence involuntary manslaughter being reasonable.

He's not some guy being given a gun by the host at a BBQ to try out, he's a guy who used guns professionally. If anything expectations would be higher for professionals. Not that I think it matters here, I can't see what he did being legal.

[The Brain]

I hear that Alec Baldwin is finally being charged with involuntary manslaughter. I know he's rich, white and famous and everything, but if he walks away I think it would be a scandal. I've always liked Alec Baldwin, but you don't shoot people.

My understanding is that he claims that he was told the gun wasn't loaded with live rounds. I've aimed a loaded SMG at a human and fired it, because I knew for a fact it was shooting blanks. I had prepared and loaded it myself. There's no way in hell you just accept a weapon from someone and don't check it yourself when it comes to stuff like this. Unless you're committing involuntary manslaughter...

Well they have someone on set whose entire job is to make sure the guns are safe. Not every actor knows enough about guns to be personally responsible for ensuring they're safe (though perhaps Baldwin does and should).

From what I was reading at the time of the event, a significant factor here is that it was a cost-cutting production, filming in a location where they could avoid stricter regulations, and the armsmaster was not only fairly inexperienced but also doing double duty in some other role (which is a big no-no according to union rules, but this was of course a non-union production).

So IMO I personally think Baldwin should be held responsible, not because he's the actor pulling the trigger resulting in the accident - but because he's one of the major investors and producer who put together a production where safety procedures were inadequate. If Baldwin - as the major star and owner of the main production company putting together the film - had insisted on better safety practices, better safety practices would've been followed.

Yes, it's good gun user practice to personally verify the status of a gun before pulling the trigger (obviously), but a safety system that relies on actors inspecting dangerous props to verify they're safe is not going to work.

My impression is that there were a ton of things on the set that were shady and likely illegal. There's a reason you always check your weapon yourself.

[HVC]

Isn't that like asking actors to check their breaks before driving scenes? What the hell do actors know. Like Jacob said he fucked up by taking cost cutting measures in all things including safety. This is more of an occupational health and safety thing. Which you can get in real trouble for. As a manager if I took active part in side stepping safety and one of my employees got hurt I'd be in deep shit.

[The Brain]

Isn't that like asking actors to check their breaks before driving scenes? What the hell do actors know. Like Jacob said he fucked up by taking cost cutting measures in all things including safety. This is more of an occupational health and safety thing. Which you can get in real trouble for. As a manager if I took active part in side stepping safety and one of my employees got hurt I'd be in deep shit.

If the car was sometimes fitted with non-functional brakes, and sometimes with functional brakes, the actor making sure the brakes work before rehearsing a scene where they brake just in front of another human would obviously be expected.

[celedhring]

When I worked in film shootings with shootings, the procedure was to inspect the gun one last time in front of the actor that had to shoot it, not necessarily by the actor oneself.

Also this was the last in a long chain of safety checks (armorer, ass director, etc.. ).

[The Brain]

When I worked in film shootings with shootings, the procedure was to inspect the gun one last time in front of the actor that had to shoot it, not necessarily by the actor oneself.

Also this was the last in a long chain of safety checks (armorer, ass director, etc.. ).

This seems not unreasonable to me.

FWIW I think ass directors don't get enough cred.

[Josquius]

Baldwin as a producer being at fault makes sense.
As said totally can't blame him as an actor.

 It's practically a cliche of detective shows - actor accidentally murders costar when someone switches a prop for a real weapon. And the actor isn't to blame there.

[Grey Fox]

It's a damn travesty that he is being charged.

Employees being liable for company tools failing to be safe is a slippery slope no one should want us to be barreling towards.

[HVC]

I'd have to imagine he's getting hit as an employer and not employee.