The Off Topic Topic

[Valmy]

IT IS ALL THE SAME! THEY ARE ALL WORKING TOGETHER TO...um...do something. Probably destroy Christianity and Western Civilization.

[Barrister]

Woke, SJW, and so forth has kind of come just to mean that everybody who is against racism or whatever in any way is part of some kind of irrational conspiracy to destroy everything to the reactionaries.

Indeed. This weekend I saw an article in one of Canada's national papers that explicitly lumped anti-racism, antifa, wokeness, the use of the word privilige, sensitivity training, gender studies, and diversity in the workplace into one big lump (a bad lump, of course).

Care to link the article?  I'm sure I know what newspaper you're referring to, and other than one or two columnists (so their opinion doesn't necessarily reflect that of the paper) their stuff is fairly good.

[Admiral Yi]

Minor local non story.

https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/bigg-market-pub-blackie-boy-20628439?fbclid=IwAR2MWrJk3YWeC12hO8ieqp22KKBjBVyzZVAgppOP3X_hwD5lJm0NTrR1QMQ

Gadgie pub in an unfashionable part of the city centre called Blackie Boy is planning renovations. As part of this they plan to change the name to something more modern.
This pub has been called numerous things over the years albeit has had its current name for 50 years or so.
Owner in what I suspect is amazing marketing says its because he doesn't want to offend anyone.
Local rag picks up on this.
Local Facebook pages explode with rage against the woke brigade.
It's.... So bloody post 2016.

Is there a way to express you prefer the old name and that anyone offended by the name is being unreasonable, without it constituting an explosion of rage against the woke brigade?

[Valmy]

Sure. I could see somebody saying "yes I know the name is controversial but it is a local institution and you are not required to drink there blah blah" Without acting like anybody wanting to change the name is part of some sort of vast cultural conspiracy. Just like you can disagree with the Dr Suess publisher/family whomever for pulling some books that were a little more "of their time" than others without thinking this was the work of cancel culture or whatever.

[Admiral Yi]

Sure. I could see somebody saying "yes I know the name is controversial but it is a local institution and you are not required to drink there blah blah" Without acting like anybody wanting to change the name is part of some sort of vast cultural conspiracy. Just like you can disagree with the Dr Suess publisher/family whomever for pulling some books that were a little more "of their time" than others without thinking this was the work of cancel culture or whatever.

So it's OK as long as you don't mention the people the pub owners are afraid of offending?

I'm not trying to pick on you.  I'm trying to hash out the right and proper way to react to this culture wars stuff.

[Jacob]

Is there a way to express you prefer the old name and that anyone offended by the name is being unreasonable, without it constituting an explosion of rage against the woke brigade?

"I can't believe anyone was seriously offended by the old name. They should've kept it."

"That's too bad, I don't think the old name is a big deal."

... or even...

"I prefer the old name and anyone actually offended by it is being unreasonable."

[Valmy]

Sure. I could see somebody saying "yes I know the name is controversial but it is a local institution and you are not required to drink there blah blah" Without acting like anybody wanting to change the name is part of some sort of vast cultural conspiracy. Just like you can disagree with the Dr Suess publisher/family whomever for pulling some books that were a little more "of their time" than others without thinking this was the work of cancel culture or whatever.

So it's OK as long as you don't mention the people the pub owners are afraid of offending?

I'm not trying to pick on you.  I'm trying to hash out the right and proper way to react to this culture wars stuff.

Generally yeah. I think things get crazy is when you start assigning motivations and intentions on people without evidence. You start making it about things that aren't that.

[Admiral Yi]

Generally yeah. I think things get crazy is when you start assigning motivations and intentions on people without evidence. You start making it about things that aren't that.

We assign motivations and intentions to people all the time.  It's a standard part of political discourse.

[Valmy]

Generally yeah. I think things get crazy is when you start assigning motivations and intentions on people without evidence. You start making it about things that aren't that.

We assign motivations and intentions to people all the time.  It's a standard part of political discourse.

I think there is a pretty key difference between assigning people of being bad actors and having malignant intentions with little evidence and assigning other less toxic projections. I mean if you assign all black men as being motivated to rape white women, somebody might get lynched. They might act the way they do for other, less insane reasons.

[Josquius]

The comments I saw were very definitely jumping straight to "the woke brigade trying to destroy our culture!" and skipping right over reasonable critique.

The old name always made me giggle a bit. Didn't help that until a few years ago iirc they had a golly wog for a sign. And the new one is a bit generic trendy olde worldy.
But it's the owners pub to change the name. Its not like it has been called this forever and the new name is offensive.
As said though I really do suspect some cynical marketing game playing with saying its due to not wanting to cause offence. I haven't encountered any protests against the pub.
It's simply an unfashionable old man pub in a part of town that the council is investing heavily into bringing up market.

[grumbler]

Why must it be a cynical plot on the part of the owner to rename his pub something that he thinks will bring in more customers.  Certainly I wouldn't walk into a pub named "Blackie Boy" and if invited to one would suggest we find an alternative.  Not because I think the owner is racist, but because I think he could be, and there are other easy choices.

The way to protest the name change without causing offense is to say "it's a pity they changed the name.  I liked the old one."  No reason whatsoever to refer to anyone else, as it's just a personal opinion.

[Sheilbh]

This story is crazy:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/19/belgian-manhunt-armed-soldier-jurgen-c-threatened-virologist

Belgian manhunt for armed soldier who threatened virologist
Police search forest in Limburg for soldier 'Jurgen C' who has links to extreme right and went missing from his barracks


Marc Van Ranst, a high-profile virologist and government adviser, has been moved with his family to a safe house for his protection. Photograph: Johanna Geron/Reuters
Daniel Boffey in Brussels
Wed 19 May 2021 14.15 BST

Police in Belgium are searching for a heavily armed soldier with links to the extreme right who has made threats against a high-profile virologist who backed the country's Covid lockdowns.

Jurgen Conings, 46, has been missing since Monday after taking from his barracks at four rocket launchers, a submachine gun, a pistol and a bulletproof vest.

Special forces and police were searching Dilserbos forest, near Dilsen in Limburg, on Tuesday night after the man's Audi car was found, but the fugitive is yet to be apprehended. The federal prosecutor's office said that "the most worrying weapons were found in the car".

Conings is believed to still be armed with a submachine gun and a 5.7mm pistol. Searches were continuing on Wednesday in the Hoge Kempen national park.

Conings is 6ft 2in, muscular, bald and has several tattoos, including on his upper arms At the time of his disappearance, he was said to be a wearing a dark Timberland T-shirt.

Conings' girlfriend had alerted the army after reportedly discovering two suicide letters to friends and family at his home in Lanklaar in which he said he no longer wished to live "in such a society ruled by politicians and virologists".

A corporal who specialises in firearms training, he wrote that he would "join the resistance and would not surrender without a fight", according to the Het Nieuwsblad newspaper. He has known links to figures in the extreme right of Belgian politics, and was on the radar of anti-terrorist authorities.

"It is feared that he wants to carry out a violent action, against himself or against other persons, but the correct possible targets are still unclear," the public prosecutor Eric Van Duyse said.

Special forces were searching Dilserbos forest with the aid of a helicopter and local residents were asked to stay indoors for their own safety. The military army base of Kleine Brogel was also under extra surveillance.

Conings is said to have specifically threatened Marc Van Ranst, a virologist and government adviser who regularly appears in the media. He tweeted earlier this year: "Who has Van Ranst's address?"

Conings was subsequently disciplined and confined to a desk job but was recently allowed to resume his usual duties. The soldier has been in the army since 1992 and has undertaken tours in Afghanistan.

Van Ranst, who has been moved with his family to a safe house, told local media: "Let one thing be clear: such threats do not make the slightest impression on me."

He said there was evidence, however, that Conings had been surveilling his home. "There were indications that this guy had come to scout the town where I live," Van Ranst said. "He spent a number of hours there."

Questions are now being asked as to why Conings was allowed to serve given his open support for the extreme right and the nature of his social media posts. He is understood to have a relationship with Thomas Boutens, an ex-soldier, who was convicted in 2014 as leader of the neo-Nazi group Blood, Soil, Honour and Faith in Flanders.

Boutens tweeted on Tuesday: "The thoughts are with an old colleague's brother in arms. J, wherever you are, you are not alone, even if it is in a world that spits on the faithful."

[Admiral Yi]

He's a 46 year old corporal.

[Eddie Teach]

Not everyone gets to climb the corporate ladder.

[Richard Hakluyt]

The comments I saw were very definitely jumping straight to "the woke brigade trying to destroy our culture!" and skipping right over reasonable critique.

The old name always made me giggle a bit. Didn't help that until a few years ago iirc they had a golly wog for a sign. And the new one is a bit generic trendy olde worldy.
But it's the owners pub to change the name. Its not like it has been called this forever and the new name is offensive.
As said though I really do suspect some cynical marketing game playing with saying its due to not wanting to cause offence. I haven't encountered any protests against the pub.
It's simply an unfashionable old man pub in a part of town that the council is investing heavily into bringing up market.

There was a pub called the Black Boy in Moorsley bank back in the day. In the 70s it had a racist caricature of a black boy for its pub sign, but in the 80s it got a new sign which showed a lad covered in coal grime heaving tubs about down the pit. Then, at some point in the 21st century it closed 

That solution always seemed a good one to me; a big improvement but you also got to keep the old name.