The Off Topic Topic

[HVC]

Portugal has lithium. And Canada has oil. Give my forebearers and my native land all your cash. Please and thank you

[HVC]

As for weight thats just a result of the energy capacity. Just holds less... electrons? Whatever the science reason is for it lol. So will always be heavier than an equivalent lithium battery.

As I understand it.

Also, what ever happened to the solid state batteries that were supposed to save us all?

[Grey Fox]

Like Nuclear Fusion, 3 years away from being 3 years away.

[Sheilbh]

I could be wrong but I don't think it's to do with sourcing lithium but processing it which is a dirty industry environmentally (as with a lot of the processes in manufacturing batteries) - and I think it's the processing where China's really built their strategic advantage.

Indonesia's really interesting because they've tried to move up the supply chain from pure extraction to processing. They have something like over half the world's graphite and under Joko Widodo basically mandated that graphite had to be processed in Indonesia by Indonesian companies (it might even be state-owned) for export which has in that sector moved them up the supply chain, brings in better revenue but is a very dirty industry. They're trying to do it with other mineral resources too but the problem they're facing elsewhere (I think including lithium) is that they don't have enough to actually exercise that type of market power - there's lots of lithium available from lots of other countries.

It's one of those really interesting Janus-faced aspects of energy transition. To take graphite as an example it is really important for many clean technologies that we need to make en masse for energy transition. At the same time the extraction and processing are incredibly dirty and locally environmentally damaging, plus Indonesia is overwhelmingly still reliant on coal power so the enery used to process the graphite is very carbon heavy. But also it's old school state developmentalism which is necessary, always good and probably necessary in the long-run for Indonesia to also have an energy transition from coal. And that's a relatively "clean" supply chain when you compare it with things like cobalt which environmentally and ethically is probably the dirtiest supply chain in the world - and yet every single one of us are relying on it to respond to this or any other thread. Whether it's a smartphone or a laptop, it will contain cobalt. Heard a thing with a (British) journalist who's just written about the various stories of extraction in DRC and he said that when he was there, particularly in the East, kids would shout "chinois" at him - because that is basically the word for "foreigner" in DRC now. It's all a new world so many angles and shifts - it's very very interesting.

I said before but I keep going back to Walter Benjamin for trying to think about/understand it: "There is no document of civilization which is not at the same time a document of barbarism. And just as such a document is not free of barbarism, barbarism taints also the manner in which it was transmitted from one owner to another."

[Sheilbh]

Like Nuclear Fusion, 3 years away from being 3 years away.

Yeah - I've said elsewhere but I think a lot of your view on what energy policy should be depends on your view of the possibility and proximity of technological breakthroughs. And I think people who would absolutely (and rightly) reject an energy policy premised on fusion power or CCS are more comfortable supporting a policy that relies on storage technologies that currently don't exist.

The break-through could be announced tomorrow. It might well be here in full within 2-3 years. And that enables a variety of energy policies. It could take fifty years and that requires a rather different prioritisation.

My view is that we kind of have to proceed as if the storage solution or fusion or CCS will not actally be developed and work on energy transition with the technology we have now - and then adapt to incorporate the state of the art as and when it emerges.

[HVC]

I thought the dirty part of lithium is tied to the extraction, not necessarily the processing into usable forms. Kind of like copper, lots of water and nasty chemicals.  Although we might talking past eachother by what we consider extraction and processing.

[HVC]

As for energy storage I always liked the water reservoir idea. Kind of like old school water towers, but at a much larger scale. Pump water into reservoir with "excess" power during the day, pour it out at night to generate power. Doesn't even have to be potable water (and shouldn't be).

Less for the hydrogen model. Clean, but can go boom. I think we fixate too much on batteries.

[Sheilbh]

We might be - or I could be wrong Might have got it mixed up as science is not my strong suit.

[The Brain]

As for energy storage I always liked the water reservoir idea. Kind of like old school water towers, but at a much larger scale. Pump water into reservoir with "excess" power during the day, pour it out at night to generate power. Doesn't even have to be potable water (and shouldn't be).

Huge safety and environmental issues, like all large scale hydro.

[HVC]

As for energy storage I always liked the water reservoir idea. Kind of like old school water towers, but at a much larger scale. Pump water into reservoir with "excess" power during the day, pour it out at night to generate power. Doesn't even have to be potable water (and shouldn't be).

Huge safety and environmental issues, like all large scale hydro.

Sure, but at some point we have to shit or get off the pot. Fossil fuels aren't the answer, nor waiting for a tech that might never materialize.


But this will all come to a head long after I'm dead so... 

[HVC]

I'm also all for nukes powering the future. But the greens ( ) and the Simpsons have seen to that never happening.

[Duque de Bragança]

Like Nuclear Fusion, 25 years away from being 25 years away.

Corrigé ! 

[The Brain]

I'm also all for nukes powering the future.

But the greens ( ) and the Simpsons have seen to that never happening.