The Off Topic Topic

[mongers]

I meant more than Tamas & his wife and also didn't mean the entire UK car buying population. I meant our languish UK population.

I'm not sure we're representative as:
Tricky doesn't like driving,
Shelf doesn't have a car, so rarely drives,
Josq has a car but hates all other car drivers, yet still drives. ( )
G has a car, but living in the capital does use public transport.
I haven't driven in 26 1/3 years.
PLJ probably drives, but uses trains quite a bit.

So to conclude Tamas is the only confirmed petrol-head we have. 

[Josquius]

Josq has a car but hates all other car drivers, yet still drives. ( )

Not ALL drivers. I need a few others on the road so I don't get paranoid that I'm driving somewhere I shouldn't be driving :p
Also add me on the hates driving list.

But more realistically... I have a car because my partner made me. She needs one to get to work. I don't blame others stuck living in a car-centric society for having a car, I blame those keeping society this way and not presenting any alternative.

[PJL]

I meant more than Tamas & his wife and also didn't mean the entire UK car buying population. I meant our languish UK population.

I'm not sure we're representative as:
Tricky doesn't like driving,
Shelf doesn't have a car, so rarely drives,
Josq has a car but hates all other car drivers, yet still drives. ( )
G has a car, but living in the capital does use public transport.
I haven't driven in 26 1/3 years.
PLJ probably drives, but uses trains quite a bit.

So to conclude Tamas is the only confirmed petrol-head we have. 

I can't drive, so I always use public transport.

[Barrister]

I don't get the "hates driving" bit.

Driving is wonderful.  It's just a sense of freedom - you can go anywhere you want, anytime you want.

And that's not just a North American perspective - I've driven from London to the tip of Scotland, and back.  In North America I've driven through Chicago, and driven the entire length of the Alaska Highway.

I mean sure it's not always great.  My morning commute this morning, in fresh snow, was hardly wonderful.  But on whole driving is awesome.

[Tamas]

I don't get the "hates driving" bit.

Driving is wonderful.  It's just a sense of freedom - you can go anywhere you want, anytime you want.

And that's not just a North American perspective - I've driven from London to the tip of Scotland, and back.  In North America I've driven through Chicago, and driven the entire length of the Alaska Highway.

I mean sure it's not always great.  My morning commute this morning, in fresh snow, was hardly wonderful.  But on whole driving is awesome.

I hate stuck in traffic like the next guy, but the freedom and mobility is just great, not to mention the driving itself

[Barrister]

Last weekend I took my kid to a hockey tournament in Stettler, Alberta.

Due to a lack of hotel rooms in Stettler though we wound up staying in a hotel in Red Deer - a solid one hour away.  I can tell you that the drive, in the dark in early winter, from Stettler to Red Deer was no fun - in particular because I was worried about hitting a deer.

But on Sunday when the tournament was over - I drove back to Edmonton. 2 hour drive through the countryside, through roads I'd never been on before.  It was beautiful.

[HVC]

I don't get the "hates driving" bit.

Driving is wonderful.  It's just a sense of freedom - you can go anywhere you want, anytime you want.

And that's not just a North American perspective - I've driven from London to the tip of Scotland, and back.  In North America I've driven through Chicago, and driven the entire length of the Alaska Highway.

I mean sure it's not always great.  My morning commute this morning, in fresh snow, was hardly wonderful.  But on whole driving is awesome.

Maybe it's a left side right side brain thing and by driving on the wrong side of the road has effected the Brits Being a mainland transport tamas hasn't been afflicted

[garbon]

As Mongers stated, minorities don't lease 

Though I don't know garbon's height so he might not be small.

Now that I know that the UK definition of minority means everybody except the financially elite, that makes sense.

You would have otherwise thought a small minority meant a small black person?

[crazy canuck]

Being small has nothing to do with it.  And the term historically has also not only applied to Black people.

[Josquius]

I don't get the "hates driving" bit.

Driving is wonderful.  It's just a sense of freedom - you can go anywhere you want, anytime you want.

And that's not just a North American perspective - I've driven from London to the tip of Scotland, and back.  In North America I've driven through Chicago, and driven the entire length of the Alaska Highway.

I mean sure it's not always great.  My morning commute this morning, in fresh snow, was hardly wonderful.  But on whole driving is awesome.

Compete and total opposite.

Driving strips you of your freedom. In theory you can go where you want whenever you want but in practice this is a lot of work and effort and has massive restrictions.

There's a lot of restrictions to beware of when driving that just don't apply when you're able to walk and mostly not (officially) when you cycle.
With transit it's usually just schedules against you (something very fixable if the politicians care).

I love the sense of freedom that comes from being able to get around and do things under my own power without being shackled to a car and needing to put in such efforts to do anything.

[garbon]

Being small has nothing to do with it.  And the term historically has also not only applied to Black people.

Historically?

[Barrister]

I don't get the "hates driving" bit.

Driving is wonderful.  It's just a sense of freedom - you can go anywhere you want, anytime you want.

And that's not just a North American perspective - I've driven from London to the tip of Scotland, and back.  In North America I've driven through Chicago, and driven the entire length of the Alaska Highway.

I mean sure it's not always great.  My morning commute this morning, in fresh snow, was hardly wonderful.  But on whole driving is awesome.

Compete and total opposite.

Driving strips you of your freedom. In theory you can go where you want whenever you want but in practice this is a lot of work and effort.
There's a lot of restrictions to beware of when driving that just don't apply when you're able to walk and mostly not (officially) when you cycle.
With transit it's usually just schedules against you (something very fixable if the politicians care).

I love the sense of freedom that comes from being able to get around and do things under my own power without being shackled to a car and needing to put in such efforts to do anything.

It's not an either/or though.

I love walking.  I love public transit.  I love cycling.  Each have their place.

I've mentioned I'm counting down the days (and, well frankly, years) as they're building a LRT stop to my neighbourhood.  I'll gladly walk, then ride the train, to work instead of driving.

But you'll take my car from me when you pry it from my cold, dead hands on the steering wheel.

[Josquius]

I don't get the "hates driving" bit.

Driving is wonderful.  It's just a sense of freedom - you can go anywhere you want, anytime you want.

And that's not just a North American perspective - I've driven from London to the tip of Scotland, and back.  In North America I've driven through Chicago, and driven the entire length of the Alaska Highway.

I mean sure it's not always great.  My morning commute this morning, in fresh snow, was hardly wonderful.  But on whole driving is awesome.

Compete and total opposite.

Driving strips you of your freedom. In theory you can go where you want whenever you want but in practice this is a lot of work and effort.
There's a lot of restrictions to beware of when driving that just don't apply when you're able to walk and mostly not (officially) when you cycle.
With transit it's usually just schedules against you (something very fixable if the politicians care).

I love the sense of freedom that comes from being able to get around and do things under my own power without being shackled to a car and needing to put in such efforts to do anything.

It's not an either/or though.

I love walking.  I love public transit.  I love cycling.  Each have their place.

I've mentioned I'm counting down the days (and, well frankly, years) as they're building a LRT stop to my neighbourhood.  I'll gladly walk, then ride the train, to work instead of driving.

But you'll take my car from me when you pry it from my cold, dead hands on the steering wheel.

In theory I'd say it is a pretty clear either /or choice.
Given the choice of having to drive (or being driven) somewhere vs just sitting down on a train and doing whatever I want as I go there, the train wins every time.

In reality of course it's daft to assume the world would ever be this perfect. There's never going to be good public transport to every corner of the land. Cars will always be necessary for people living in remote areas and the like.
But as a pure theoretical choice then sure. I'm never picking cars.

On cars too I've heard good stuff about the growth of car shares in the Netherlands (London Ontarios most famous son has talked of them)  and this makes a lot of sense - most of the time cars are sitting doing nothing. If they could be available within a few minutes on demand then there'd be no need to own your own.

[Valmy]

The magical algorithms that rule the internet, and thus our lives, have noticed that I am a Democratic voter and therefore have started bombarding me with suggestions on which country I should flee the USA for.

I don't know man. I see how much people on the internet hate immigrants. I would never want to become one 

[Barrister]

In theory I'd say it is a pretty clear either /or choice.
Given the choice of having to drive (or being driven) somewhere vs just sitting down on a train and doing whatever I want as I go there, the train wins every time.

In reality of course it's daft to assume the world would ever be this perfect. There's never going to be good public transport to every corner of the land. Cars will always be necessary for people living in remote areas and the like.
But as a pure theoretical choice then sure. I'm never picking cars.

On cars too I've heard good stuff about the growth of car shares in the Netherlands (London Ontarios most famous son has talked of them)  and this makes a lot of sense - most of the time cars are sitting doing nothing. If they could be available within a few minutes on demand then there'd be no need to own your own.

You know, about 8-9 years ago my wife and I made a decision - we sold my truck and bought a minivan.  It's not that we didn't use a truck - we did, to tow our trailed a few times per year, plus once or twice a year to haul heavy loads - but we figured we could just rent a truck for those handfuls of occasions.

Terrible decision.

Renting a truck was a huge pain in the ass - if they'd even allow us to rent one at all.  Most companies would not allow you to rent a truck to tow a trailer.  Even just for moving heavy loads the costs were huge.

We bought a new truck last year.  And while on a day-to-day basis we don't need it, for the times we do it's amazing.

My neighbours - they're proudly anti-car.  They use bikes a heck of a lot, for which I applaud them.  But you know what?  They have a ride-share car parked in their driveway CONSTANTLY.  I'm pretty sure it'd be cheaper for them just to buy a car.

Just as one example - I have two kids in hockey, plus I play the sport.  It would be absolutely impossible to play hockey without having a car.  Rinks are only barely accessible by public transit, plus trying to imagine hauling a big bag of hockey gear, plus the literal hours it would take depending on rink locations.

Plus - I'm a middle aged dad with too many responsibilities these days, but I remember being in my 20s and having a car.  I would literally wake up and go "you know, I'm going to go to Drumheller today".  Or hell - one weekend I drove to the freaking Northwest Territories, stayed overnight, and drove back.  Just because I wanted to.  And it was an amazing little weekend jaunt.  I had never even heard of the Alexandra Falls on the Hay River, but I saw a sign just after crossing the 60th parallel, pulled over, and was amazed.

https://spectacularnwt.com/attractions/alexandra-falls/

And it's not just North America.  I've rented a car every time in Europe (4 times so far).  The freedom to just see a sign and say "hey let's see what that is" is awesome.  Sometimes it's amazing, sometimes not (a lastminute stopover in Lichtenstein was rather disappointing).

Or my one trip to South America (Brazil) for my brother's wedding.  We were assured "oh no, you definitely don't want to rent a car.  There's lots of family around, I'm sure they can drive you anywhere you want to go".  Well, no.  We were then stuck relying on the goodwill of my sister-in-law's family, which as nice of people as they are, was NOT the same as just being able to drive and go.  And for as much as they warned me about south american traffic, I don't think it was any worse than Rome or Chicago.