The Off Topic Topic

[Jacob]

Jacob encounters the problem of evil. Good luck. 

[Sheilbh]

Ah I see. Interesting.

I personally don't think Christianity acts as much of a guarantor of those values either - given the cruelties and inhumanities carried out by folks who self-identify as Christians - sometimes justifying their actions explicitly by their Christianity.

Oh for sure - absolutely.

I don't think he'd argue that Christianity or humanism are in anyway guarantors of their values. More that they take/took them seriously rather than a purely materialist, secular read of people's motivations in the past.

Instead of a guarantee I think it's just that values are historically and culturally contingent and a product of belief/leaps of faith. And we're moving into societies that are post-Christian so what seem like fundamental assumptions for us, may not be the ones tomorrow because a society that's really shaped by Christian thought becomes more difficult to explain to itself as there are fewer Christians.

He's also interesting on the 60s-now basically being the period of biggest shift of values in the West since the Reformation for example in things such as what is culturally acceptable, how to culturally express that etc.

[frunk]

Instead of a guarantee I think it's just that values are historically and culturally contingent and a product of belief/leaps of faith. And we're moving into societies that are post-Christian so what seem like fundamental assumptions for us, may not be the ones tomorrow because a society that's really shaped by Christian thought becomes more difficult to explain to itself as there are fewer Christians.

Which I think is rather backwards.  It's pretty clear that when religion sees its relevance slipping it is perfectly happy to unmoor itself from those beliefs that have become more secular to embrace edge cases and extremism.  Rather than attempting to shore up beliefs encompassed by Humanism, large swaths of Christianity try to set itself apart by becoming narrow interest groups over things like abortion, "traditional" family values or prosperity theology.

It isn't the secularists who have lost contact with the their history, it's the religious.

[grumbler]

Which I think is rather backwards.  It's pretty clear that when religion sees its relevance slipping it is perfectly happy to unmoor itself from those beliefs that have become more secular to embrace edge cases and extremism.  Rather than attempting to shore up beliefs encompassed by Humanism, large swaths of Christianity try to set itself apart by becoming narrow interest groups over things like abortion, "traditional" family values or prosperity theology.

It isn't the secularists who have lost contact with the their history, it's the religious.

Indeed.  But I would further argue that the "Christian values" that supposedly shaped Western civilization have very little to do with the "teachings of Jesus."  Christianity is the product of Western civilization, not the wellspring of it.

[Syt]

So, this Tweet showed up in my timeline:



I went down that rabbithole, and it starts with, "Hey, it looks like you may have used some materials from my blog in your book; if you did, could you maybe cite me?" and ends with company staff assembled entirely from stock photos, copy/pasted academic articles, and legal threats.

A summary of events (with links) can be found here: https://twitter.com/paularcurtis/status/1608146988511690753

Who knew the world of reconstructing medieval books was alive with such a high drama?

[Gups]

Which I think is rather backwards.  It's pretty clear that when religion sees its relevance slipping it is perfectly happy to unmoor itself from those beliefs that have become more secular to embrace edge cases and extremism.  Rather than attempting to shore up beliefs encompassed by Humanism, large swaths of Christianity try to set itself apart by becoming narrow interest groups over things like abortion, "traditional" family values or prosperity theology.

It isn't the secularists who have lost contact with the their history, it's the religious.

Indeed.  But I would further argue that the "Christian values" that supposedly shaped Western civilization have very little to do with the "teachings of Jesus."  Christianity is the product of Western civilization, not the wellspring of it.

If you are interested in the alternative point of view, see Tom Holland's "Dominion" which argues that Paul is the wellspring if western values.

He did a good job but I was unconvinced, save that I can sort of swallow enlightenment values using Pauline and Augustine values as a base.

[Josquius]

I haven't used facebook much for ages. Went on 2 weeks back for the first time in months, had a few messages from old friends but not much else, and again today.
I have a notification,
"Based on pages you have interacted with you might like Cute Goblin Girls, Orcs and Ogres"
.....
A bit rude to those friends no?

[ulmont]

I haven't used facebook much for ages. Went on 2 weeks back for the first time in months, had a few messages from old friends but not much else, and again today.
I have a notification,
"Based on pages you have interacted with you might like Cute Goblin Girls, Orcs and Ogres"
.....
A bit rude to those friends no?

...Nice.  I've seen some other people with that suggestion but haven't gotten it yet myself.

[grumbler]

If you are interested in the alternative point of view, see Tom Holland's "Dominion" which argues that Paul is the wellspring if western values.

He did a good job but I was unconvinced, save that I can sort of swallow enlightenment values using Pauline and Augustine values as a base.

I can buy the idea that Paul was a huge influence on Western values.  I also think that he was himself a product of early Western values, not the Gospel, and the Jesus would have been appalled to know what Paul was going to say in His name.

[Razgovory]

If you are interested in the alternative point of view, see Tom Holland's "Dominion" which argues that Paul is the wellspring if western values.

He did a good job but I was unconvinced, save that I can sort of swallow enlightenment values using Pauline and Augustine values as a base.

I can buy the idea that Paul was a huge influence on Western values.  I also think that he was himself a product of early Western values, not the Gospel, and the Jesus would have been appalled to know what Paul was going to say in His name.

You could say he was "aPauled"

[Syt]

From the director of the German tank museum:



"Oh you poor guy, you have to work over the holidays?"

"Oh, well, I will manage somehow."

[viper37]

I didn't really know who was Andrew Tate before today.  So, apparently, some kind of asshole popular on Twitter.

Anyway, he bragged about his big sport cars yesterday and tagged Gretta Thunberg in his tweet, after which she replies.

Tate randomly took aim at Thunberg, bragging about his 33 cars and their "enormous emissions," writing to the 19-year-old:
"Please provide your email address so I can send a complete list of my car collection and their respective enormous emissions."

"Yes, please do enlighten me. Email me at [email protected]."

Along the way, he responded to her in some video clip featuring him in a bathrobe.  Then Romanian police located him due to the pizza box in the clip and arrested him and his brother on human trafficking charges... 

BB would like that story, it'd go well in his "dumb criminal" thread.

[Syt]

I wasn't aware him either till his Twitter spat with Greta Thunberg. The Guardian had an article about him a while back: https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/technology/2022/aug/06/andrew-tate-violent-misogynistic-world-of-tiktok-new-star

Around the time UK police were investigating abuse allegations, Tate is understood to have left the UK for Romania. In one video explaining his reasons for the move he suggested it was because it would be easier to evade rape charges. This is "probably 40% of the reason" he moved there, he says in one video, adding: "I'm not a rapist, but I like the idea of just being able to do what I want. I like being free."

He was banned from Twitter (IIRC because saying that if women get raped it's partly their own fault), but he was reinstated under Elon's amnesty.

[Razgovory]

He's like an alt-right scumbag or something.  Appeared on infowars.

[Josquius]

So small dick energy and big dick energy are both insults?
What of medium dick?