The Off Topic Topic

[garbon]

Yes she's apparently okay. Up in a house that was used after the earthquake/tsunami in the 60s as a coordination centre for the Red Cross.

[Liep]

The submarine killing has gone from tabloid news to sheer horror. The police has released the charges against Peter Madsen and I got sick from just reading the headlines.

[The Brain]

Hopefully he'll get locked up forever.

[Eddie Teach]

Don't be a creep Tyr. That is not what happened.

What happened then? (Be damned if I'm going to Google Aziz Ansari   )

[The Larch]

Don't be a creep Tyr. That is not what happened.

What happened then? (Be damned if I'm going to Google Aziz Ansari   )

AFAIK they went on a dinner date, and afterwards to Ansari's appartment. He wanted to get it on, she not so much, but didn't express it clearly (IIRC, the accuser says that her body language was enough, or something like that). They ended up hooking in some way, don't know if full sex or something else, with Ansari instigating the situation, and the accuser ended up leaving after an argument. Ansari confirms that her account was true, but that he always felt that it was a consensual situation.

[Barrister]

Yeah, it's a really odd story to be getting this kind of publicity.

Girl is very excited to get a date with Ansari (and definitely seemed to be looking to get his attention).  But although she seemingly wasn't opposed (or maybe was looking forward to) sex, she felt rushed through dinner, then they were quickly in his room.  Ansari went down on her, she said "lets cool down" which Ansari agrees, go on the couch, he keeps putting her hand on his penis, she leaves and cries.  In the end she uses the word "sexual assault".

As a lawyer, there's no way what she describes is sexual assault.

Ansari doesn't come across as noble or gentlemanly by any stretch - he seems as grabby and insistent as a college boy.  But one of the big messages from the piece was that Ansari was supposed to intuit from her body language what she did and didn't want - whatever happened to "no means no" as the gold standard?  So did Ansari really deserve a hit piece for being merely ungentlemanly?

[The Larch]

In fact he was not accused of sexual assault, IIRC, bur of "sexual impropriety", or something in that sense.

It has to be said that, in this case, the accusation has basically fired back against the accuser, as she's been mostly blamed for blowing out of proportion an, undoubtably, bad personal experience.

[Barrister]

In fact he was not accused of sexual assault, IIRC, bur of "sexual impropriety", or something in that sense.

From the original article:

Grace says her friends helped her grapple with the aftermath of her night with Ansari. "It took a really long time for me to validate this as sexual assault," she told us. "I was debating if this was an awkward sexual experience or sexual assault. And that's why I confronted so many of my friends and listened to what they had to say, because I wanted validation that it was actually bad."

I'm not going to link to this article because it is literally the #1 link when you google "Aziz Ansari". 

[Malthus]

Yeah, it's a really odd story to be getting this kind of publicity.

I think it is totally predictable.

Social norms are shifting, creating a lot of angst and rage. The pendulum is swinging hard to the "left" as to what the boundaries of acceptable sexual behavior are.

It is only to be expected that this will result in some stories that are over the line - the pendulum will swing too far, start to get absurd, as people try to get more "edgy".

This will no doubt spark a backlash, the sense that the whole thing has gone too far. How can it not, when advocates are openly saying that due process in such cases doesn't matter and is insulting?

Hopefully, the pendulum of public opinion will eventually settle down in a reasonable spot, shifted somewhat over (stuff like the "casting couch" seen as abusive rather than a joke; due process recognized as vital).   

[The Larch]

In fact he was not accused of sexual assault, IIRC, bur of "sexual impropriety", or something in that sense.

From the original article:

Grace says her friends helped her grapple with the aftermath of her night with Ansari. "It took a really long time for me to validate this as sexual assault," she told us. "I was debating if this was an awkward sexual experience or sexual assault. And that's why I confronted so many of my friends and listened to what they had to say, because I wanted validation that it was actually bad."

I'm not going to link to this article because it is literally the #1 link when you google "Aziz Ansari". 

Ok, that was not what I remembered from the reports I read then. In any case the important thing about this situation is that it was the accuser the one facing backlash and ridicule, rather than the accused. Ansari doesn't come out smelling like roses either, and appears to be a rather handsy and horny guy, but he's not a criminal either.

[Barrister]

Ok, that was not what I remembered from the reports I read then. In any case the important thing about this situation is that it was the accuser the one facing backlash and ridicule, rather than the accused. Ansari doesn't come out smelling like roses either, and appears to be a rather handsy and horny guy, but he's not a criminal either.

You mean the anonymous accuser is facing backlash and ridicule?

[Admiral Yi]

You mean the anonymous accuser is facing backlash and ridicule?

I've run across plenty of clips on Youtube of people criticizing the chick.  That's what DGuller and I were talking about when we mentioned counteroutrage.

[Barrister]

You mean the anonymous accuser is facing backlash and ridicule?

I've run across plenty of clips on Youtube of people criticizing the chick.  That's what DGuller and I were talking about when we mentioned counteroutrage.

Perhaps I should have emphasized the word anonymous.  While perhaps this is making "Grace" feel bad, she's going to suffer precisely zero repercussions for this story otherwise.  Not that I really want her to - but Ansari almost certainly is going to suffer professional repercussions.

[Razgovory]

It doesn't seem fair to call the woman a "psycho".

[The Larch]

You mean the anonymous accuser is facing backlash and ridicule?

I've run across plenty of clips on Youtube of people criticizing the chick.  That's what DGuller and I were talking about when we mentioned counteroutrage.

Perhaps I should have emphasized the word anonymous.  While perhaps this is making "Grace" feel bad, she's going to suffer precisely zero repercussions for this story otherwise.  Not that I really want her to - but Ansari almost certainly is going to suffer professional repercussions.

The issue is not that she feels repercussions on a personal level or not, but that her way of reasoning is not condoned and accepted as the next step in the struggle against toxic masculinity or whatnot.