EU Immigration Crisis Megathread

[Eddie Teach]

Historically, western, liberal culture has been accompanied by economic and technological dominance. Some countries have found a way to catch up on those fronts without liberalizing.

Frankly, even within western society there's been a lot of weakening. Governments are watching people all the time, and increasingly the population is ok with that. The US has held a couple hundred people for over a decade with no trial. Much of Europe criminalizes various forms of politically incorrect speech. There have been a number of cases where democratic states have reverted to something less so- Weimar, Putin's Russia, several South American countries. Our system isn't invulnerable.

[Zanza]

Latest outrage in the media: A public pool in a German town instituted a "Keine Juden Flüchtlinge" policy after some refugee youth sexually assaulted a girl there.

Is that legal?

No idea

[Zanza]

Frankly, even within western society there's been a lot of weakening. Governments are watching people all the time, and increasingly the population is ok with that. The US has held a couple hundred people for over a decade with no trial. Much of Europe criminalizes various forms of politically incorrect speech.

While bad, I am sure you can find worse if you look in decades past in the West. Socially (women, gays, minorities) we've seen huge advances in the West. Despite considerable migration over the last decades.

There have been a number of cases where democratic states have reverted to something less so- Weimar, Putin's Russia, several South American countries. Our system isn't invulnerable.

As far as I know none of these reversals had anything to do with migration, but all were staged by domestic radicals. That's why it is important to oppose these.

[Eddie Teach]

I was mainly arguing with Berkut's overconfidence, not with immigration or even mass immigration.

And I'd say those advances were about equality- liberty may well have peaked.

[Zanza]

And I'd say those advances were about equality- liberty may well have peaked.

Fair enough

[Camerus]

This wave of immigration is also different in scale (far greater,  and possibly with much more to come) and in the hostility of many migrants vis-a-vis the host population versus previous immigration waves. As the Brain pointed out, there have already been reductions in quality of life.  It's also taking place in countries that have not historically been immigrant countries.

I think much depends on how the EU responds if another big wave begins come the warmer weather.

[Josquius]

Syria has a population of around 17 million people.
Even if every man, woman and child suddenly decided to move to Europe it wouldn't be the destruction of our culture.
That many would certainly fuck things up rather seriously.
But to suggest it is anything close to a population replacement of the 500 million EU.....

[Admiral Yi]

What does fluchtlinge mean?

[Grinning_Colossus]

What does fluchtlinge mean?

Refugee

[Martinus]

Syria has a population of around 17 million people.
Even if every man, woman and child suddenly decided to move to Europe it wouldn't be the destruction of our culture.
That many would certainly fuck things up rather seriously.
But to suggest it is anything close to a population replacement of the 500 million EU.....

I don't even feel like bothering to answer that.

[Jacob]

What does fluchtlinge mean?

Flucht = Flee
Linge = one way to turn a word into a plural denoting a group of people. So, say, were a clan of fearsome vikings descended from you, they might have been known as the Yilings.

[Jacob]

Syria has a population of around 17 million people.
Even if every man, woman and child suddenly decided to move to Europe it wouldn't be the destruction of our culture.
That many would certainly fuck things up rather seriously.
But to suggest it is anything close to a population replacement of the 500 million EU.....

I don't even feel like bothering to answer that.

Strong work, Tyr.

[PJL]

Given past trends and migrations, it would seem reasonable to expect migration levels from Africa & the Middle to Europe of up to 6-7 million migrants a year from Africa and the Middle East for the next 50 years. That alone would effectively increase European population levels by 50% within that time period. Which is going to make integration difficult to say the least.

[Razgovory]

denial is not just a river in egypt it seems.

Is the word "Military invasion" and "migration" the same word in Flemish or something?  Cause they aren't in English.  It makes you sound like an ignorant bigot as opposed to one who knows what words mean.  Keep in mind that if you are serious about your "war of religion" then it's very likely the US military will "migrate" into Belgium and shove missiles up your ass, just like we did when you jackasses decided to rid your self of the "Semites" three generations ago or you know, when the Serbs tried to get rid of the Muslims back in 1990's.  We take a real dim view of that behavior.

I think he is right in that successful military invasions are usually followed by migrations.

However, I believe one can define four types of migrations, by using two criteria - whether the migrants are more or less advanced than the indigenous population, and whether the migration is hostile or peaceful. Muslim migration into Europe right now is the latter on both criteria. So if we want to use historical analogies, they should be appropriate - we should compare this to, say, Goth migration into the Roman empire, and not Spanish migration into Mexico.

It's absurd to compare the movement of iron age tribes to modern political developments.  For one thing, and this is very important, we have very limited knowledge of what happened then.  Second Europe is a little more sophisticated in government and knowledge then it was in the dark ages.  For instance, most Europeans have internalized where fish come from, and the deciding lawsuits by combat has fallen out of fashion.  So, Goths invading Rome or Spaniards sacking Mexico are non starters here.  Try to think more along the lines of Yugoslavians fleeing the Balkan wars in the 1990's.  What happened then, and what did Europeans do about it?

[Razgovory]

yli may be right Berk.

But I just can't be that optimistic. I come from a country where the population has been divided between west and east for more than a thousand years, and the westerners always lost, eventually.

Which ones were the westerners?