EU Immigration Crisis Megathread

[The Brain]

That makes no sense.
If there was a genuine risk of them being sent back if they don't accept less than ideal conditions- then there would be reason to be suspicious.
As things are though they're not going to lose anything immediately evident (good will etc being rather abstract) by wanting something once they're safe.
It's like you've got a big basket of beers and you offer me a heineken - I know youre a nice guy and I see you've also got a bunch of hoegaardens in your basket too. I ask for the better  beer knowing whether you give me it or not you're not going to kick me out of the party.

Also I have to wonder how often this kind of event happens vs the likely more usual event of refugees going where they're placed.

These are decisions about life or death. Not beer. Every person we help who isn't a refugee is an actual refugee that we cannot help. Because we are about to set volume limits.

Also, if you come to my home and DEMAND stuff other than I serve you you ARE getting thrown out.

[Grallon]

Another busload of "refugees" refused to get off the bus because they weren't happy with the accomodations (it was basically in the countryside, they wanted a big city)...

Are they refugees or tourists?  And yet we find apologists everywhere.  I don't know what's worse, these hordes of migrants or the brainless imbeciles who welcome them with open arms...



G.

[Tamas]

Also, if you come to my home and DEMAND stuff other than I serve you you ARE getting thrown out.

Yep

[Josquius]

That makes no sense.
If there was a genuine risk of them being sent back if they don't accept less than ideal conditions- then there would be reason to be suspicious.
As things are though they're not going to lose anything immediately evident (good will etc being rather abstract) by wanting something once they're safe.
It's like you've got a big basket of beers and you offer me a heineken - I know youre a nice guy and I see you've also got a bunch of hoegaardens in your basket too. I ask for the better  beer knowing whether you give me it or not you're not going to kick me out of the party.

Also I have to wonder how often this kind of event happens vs the likely more usual event of refugees going where they're placed.

These are decisions about life or death. Not beer. Every person we help who isn't a refugee is an actual refugee that we cannot help. Because we are about to set volume limits.

Also, if you come to my home and DEMAND stuff other than I serve you you ARE getting thrown out.

You've missed the point.
You're assuming they're not refugees purely because once they've attained safety they want more than the minimum. There is no logical connection to make this the case.

Ive no issue with getting tough on them, telling them to be more grateful and accept what they're given.
Branding them as fakers just because they reach for more though? 

[Tamas]

That makes no sense.
If there was a genuine risk of them being sent back if they don't accept less than ideal conditions- then there would be reason to be suspicious.
As things are though they're not going to lose anything immediately evident (good will etc being rather abstract) by wanting something once they're safe.
It's like you've got a big basket of beers and you offer me a heineken - I know youre a nice guy and I see you've also got a bunch of hoegaardens in your basket too. I ask for the better  beer knowing whether you give me it or not you're not going to kick me out of the party.

Also I have to wonder how often this kind of event happens vs the likely more usual event of refugees going where they're placed.

These are decisions about life or death. Not beer. Every person we help who isn't a refugee is an actual refugee that we cannot help. Because we are about to set volume limits.

Also, if you come to my home and DEMAND stuff other than I serve you you ARE getting thrown out.

You've missed the point.
You're assuming they're not refugees purely because once they've attained safety they want more than the minimum. There is no logical connection to make this the case.

Ive no issue with getting tough on them, telling them to be more grateful and accept what they're given.
Branding them as fakers just because they reach for more though?

This is also an important disctinction in terms of the reaction of the EU public. By invoking the "they are all refugees" card, some imply that the EU is REQUIRED to take care of them out of guilt/whatever.

[Martinus]

That makes no sense.
If there was a genuine risk of them being sent back if they don't accept less than ideal conditions- then there would be reason to be suspicious.
As things are though they're not going to lose anything immediately evident (good will etc being rather abstract) by wanting something once they're safe.

Also I have to wonder how often this kind of event happens vs the likely more usual event of refugees going where they're placed.

I can't advocate spending taxpayer money on people who go out of their way to show that they're not refugees. I don't feel like I can tell taxpayers to help people who spit in their faces while they're helping them.

Shouldn't this be more of a case-by-case assessment though? I can easily imagine an example like the one you quote - where the refugees have excessive expectations - or one when the host country is deliberately offering sub-standard accomodations to discourage refugees from coming to it (thus flouting its international obligations concerning refugees). It's more of a factual question of whether the accomodations meet proper standards than one of absolutes.

[Josquius]

There is no such card.
Of course  they're not all refugees.
There are lots of economic migrants mixed in amongst them (I read about 30% are Serbs,  Kosovans and Albanians).
These people should be deported swiftly and I don't think many would argue with that.
But even if you come from the worst, most oppressive, war torn mess on the planet and your life is in imminent danger back home.... it doesnt mean that once you've reached safety you'll just go along with everything and settle for terrible conditions.
Some people will, scared they'll be deported.
Others... they're confident that won't happen.  They want to make the best of their bad situation. They know/believe the mimimum safety net of not being sent home is established.

[Eddie Teach]

It's those cocky ones you want to get rid of.

[The Brain]

It's not terrible conditions, it's just out in the countryside. It's good enough for millions of Swedes but not good enough for Mr. Fleeing-for-my-life? Hardly.

Identifying fake refugees is a GOOD thing FFS. Means we don't waste resources on them.

[crazy canuck]

It's not terrible conditions, it's just out in the countryside. It's good enough for millions of Swedes but not good enough for Mr. Fleeing-for-my-life? Hardly.

Identifying fake refugees is a GOOD thing FFS.

And so the refugees who have been through hell and have heard stories of others being mistreated by authorities in Europe are just supposed to trust that being dropped off in the middle of nowhere is going to be ok?  I suppose you are right.  Why wouldn't they have instinctive trust.  I am sure they would be completely unreasonable to assume there might be some Swedes who think they should get the bare minimum and be happy for it.

[Tamas]

It's not terrible conditions, it's just out in the countryside. It's good enough for millions of Swedes but not good enough for Mr. Fleeing-for-my-life? Hardly.

Identifying fake refugees is a GOOD thing FFS.

And so the refugees who have been through hell and have heard stories of others being mistreated by authorities in Europe are just supposed to trust that being dropped off in the middle of nowhere is going to be ok?  I suppose you are right.  Why wouldn't they have instinctive trust.  I am sure they would be completely unreasonable to assume there might be some Swedes who think they should get the bare minimum and be happy for it.

They are not ENTITLED to receive help.

Us Europeans SHOULD help them because that is the right thing to do. But as they say about Internet posting, it is a privilege, not a right.

[The Brain]

It's not terrible conditions, it's just out in the countryside. It's good enough for millions of Swedes but not good enough for Mr. Fleeing-for-my-life? Hardly.

Identifying fake refugees is a GOOD thing FFS.

And so the refugees who have been through hell and have heard stories of others being mistreated by authorities in Europe are just supposed to trust that being dropped off in the middle of nowhere is going to be ok?  I suppose you are right.  Why wouldn't they have instinctive trust.  I am sure they would be completely unreasonable to assume there might be some Swedes who think they should get the bare minimum and be happy for it.

Er, it's more a case of they heard that Sweden gives good care, not bad care. They haven't said anything about being afraid of neglect, they have said that they don't like the countryside and prefer cities.

[The Brain]

I don't get why people rush to the defense of the bus-sitters. They're a TINY minority among the people who come to Sweden, and ALL SIGNS point to them being in it for the money.

[crazy canuck]

It's not terrible conditions, it's just out in the countryside. It's good enough for millions of Swedes but not good enough for Mr. Fleeing-for-my-life? Hardly.

Identifying fake refugees is a GOOD thing FFS.

And so the refugees who have been through hell and have heard stories of others being mistreated by authorities in Europe are just supposed to trust that being dropped off in the middle of nowhere is going to be ok?  I suppose you are right.  Why wouldn't they have instinctive trust.  I am sure they would be completely unreasonable to assume there might be some Swedes who think they should get the bare minimum and be happy for it.

They are not ENTITLED to receive help.

Us Europeans SHOULD help them because that is the right thing to do. But as they say about Internet posting, it is a privilege, not a right.

Europeans should help because it is right, but by God if those foreigners complain about being dropped off in the middle of nowhwere to hell with them.

I see.

[Jacob]

Er, it's more a case of they heard that Sweden gives good care, not bad care. They haven't said anything about being afraid of neglect, they have said that they don't like the countryside and prefer cities.

And people who prefer cities to the countryside cannot be refugees?