EU Immigration Crisis Megathread

[Richard Hakluyt]

Heh, I don't know how you do it Jacob but you have me at least partly convinced 

[Jacob]

Heh, I don't know how you do it Jacob but you have me at least partly convinced 

[Tamas]

Even if I can agree with Jacob's sentiment, I maintain that handling this as a refugee crisis is a grave mistake both for the EU and the migrants.

More than ten thousand migrants are arriving to the EU DAILY. This means a steady increase in numbers for over a year now with no stop to the trend in sight, unless we count with a humanitarian disaster during the winter but let's hope that won't happen.

These people will be able to have more hope in the most meager German, or EU temporary shelter than in their home countries for the foreseeable future. Afghanistan, Syria, Sudan etc. will not be liveable to any kind of civilised standards for at least ten years. And by that time we may very well see more catastrophes worldwide due to climate change etc.

These ten thousand people a day are coming to stay.

There is an obligation to help but there is an obligation to maintain a maintainable course for one's country on the long run. And accepting everyone and hoping for the best is not such.

These people should be handled, as migrants. They should be evaluated for being able to stay on same grounds countries like Canada already evaluate. Eligible people should be accepted and helped in integrating into their host country's society and workforce in a determined and timely manner.

The rest should be sent away and helped in cross-border refugee camps.

[Josquius]

I don't know about the laws on it in Europe, but in the US, potential (legal) immigrants who already have family here get preferred treatment.

Yeah but you can't really expect them to sit around in Syria whilst the bullets fly, waiting until Sweden finally agrees to let them move in with uncle Abdul.,
They are fleeting Syria, they don't really have any choice in their leaving, and this cuts off regular immigration avenues.

The obvious solution would be that countries that don't want to take in the refugees pay the Greeks to keep them.

Better. But still unfair on Greece.
A better system would be everyone has a quota of bodies and funding and this can be 'bought and sold' so to speak (quota for the future that is, not actually buying and selling people).

While international organizations might be more objective, I don't know there's any evidence that they'd actually do a better job.

The EU, for all its faults, its a major bit of evidence for what can be accomplished when things are done on an international scale

[Eddie Teach]

The EU, for all its faults, its a major bit of evidence for what can be accomplished when things are done on an international scale

As is NATO. The difference between them and the UN organizations is that they can be selective about membership.

[Valmy]

Heh, I don't know how you do it Jacob but you have me at least partly convinced 

It is because he speaks truth...in this matter anyway.

The problem is too many of these countries are stuck in the past.

[The Brain]

Like in so many other matters (the environment etc), to a large part of the population the issue at its core isn't about helping people but about self-flagellation. I don't think this is a wise choice.

[Tamas]

Like in so many other matters (the environment etc), to a large part of the population the issue at its core isn't about helping people but about self-flagellation. I don't think this is a wise choice.

[Valmy]

Like in so many other matters (the environment etc), to a large part of the population the issue at its core isn't about helping people but about self-flagellation. I don't think this is a wise choice.

Indeed. These sorts of matters should be based on a vision for the future and not hand wringing over the past

[Ancient Demon]

Like in so many other matters (the environment etc), to a large part of the population the issue at its core isn't about helping people but about self-flagellation. I don't think this is a wise choice.

Yes, this is about guilt and penance, not reason or fairness.

[Ancient Demon]

The problem is too many of these countries are stuck in the past.

A country is nothing more than it's people. This migration will push these countries further into the past.

[Zanza]

@Valmy: The Wiki article gives a first overview of the concept and relates it to the US as well. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitutional_patriotism

By the way, the concept was mentioned by our Social Democrat vice chancellor in the current situation. He said he expects people moving to Germany to adopt this constitutional patriotism.

[The Brain]

Another busload of "refugees" refused to get off the bus because they weren't happy with the accomodations (it was basically in the countryside, they wanted a big city). I don't think they get paid by the Sweden Democrats to do this but you'd be forgiven for thinking so. Anyway I think it's safe to say that these aren't refugees. A person who is actually running for his life isn't gonna bitch about the accomodation.

[Josquius]

That makes no sense.
If there was a genuine risk of them being sent back if they don't accept less than ideal conditions- then there would be reason to be suspicious.
As things are though they're not going to lose anything immediately evident (good will etc being rather abstract) by wanting something once they're safe.
It's like you've got a big basket of beers and you offer me a heineken - I know youre a nice guy and I see you've also got a bunch of hoegaardens in your basket too. I ask for the better  beer knowing whether you give me it or not you're not going to kick me out of the party.

Also I have to wonder how often this kind of event happens vs the likely more usual event of refugees going where they're placed.

[The Brain]

That makes no sense.
If there was a genuine risk of them being sent back if they don't accept less than ideal conditions- then there would be reason to be suspicious.
As things are though they're not going to lose anything immediately evident (good will etc being rather abstract) by wanting something once they're safe.

Also I have to wonder how often this kind of event happens vs the likely more usual event of refugees going where they're placed.

I can't advocate spending taxpayer money on people who go out of their way to show that they're not refugees. I don't feel like I can tell taxpayers to help people who spit in their faces while they're helping them.