EU Immigration Crisis Megathread

[Syt]

Anyway I note that Otto I failed to get Hungary into the Holy Roman Empire.

Far more important: he kicked them out. Till 955 Magyars were rampaging all over Europe. Otto beat them at Lechfeld and forced a peace treaty after which there was a major fortification program in the HRE.

[Martinus]

Anyway I note that Otto I failed to get Hungary into the Holy Roman Empire.

Far more important: he kicked them out. Till 955 Magyars were rampaging all over Europe. Otto beat them at Lechfeld and forced a peace treaty after which there was a major fortification program in the HRE.

Well, looks like he had the right idea about immigrants then - then his successors grew lax and let Magyars into Europe - and now we have to deal with the likes of Orban.

[Valmy]

http://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2015/09/23/439260519/a-german-town-in-decline-sees-refugees-as-the-path-to-revival

Tucked away in the northeastern corner of Germany, not far from the Baltic coast, Friedland is a peaceful, rural town of about 5,000 people.

It wasn't always so quiet here. When it was part of communist East Germany, Friedland was an industrial hub, where massive processing plants turned beets into sugar and potatoes into powdered starch.

Like many others in the town, Wilfried Block, 58, used to work at the local potato starch factory. But when East and West Germany became one country again in 1990, things changed.

"The factories were shut down after reunification, and it hit us hard," Block says. "We lost 2,000 jobs in Friedland alone."

Block was lucky and found another job: He's been the mayor here since 1992. He says the town has invested heavily in regenerating itself.

"Our once gray, industrial town is now green and pleasant. But we've failed to keep people from leaving," he says.

Since reunification, more than 3,000 people, most of them young, have left Friedland in pursuit of job prospects in the West. They've left behind a diminished and aging population.

Block hopes to reverse the trend and sees a golden opportunity in the many migrants currently arriving in Germany.

This demographic shift is also typical in western Germany, but for different reasons. There are plenty of jobs and the economy is buoyant, but with one of the lowest birth rates in the world, Germany is short of workers — particularly in the skilled sectors.

Most all of Europe faces similar demographic challenges, but some analysts say that if properly handled, the current migrant crisis could be turned into the basis for future economic growth in Europe.

Just saying. If Europe wants to be a world leading society again they need these people

[Zanza]

One of the things I don't get about this and about the Eurozone crisis is how Germany got into the situation that everything the EU does is perceived as basically just what Germany wants. In this case, 24 countries voted in favor, four against. Yet the four rail apparently exclusively against Germany. I guess it makes me more understanding about how Americans feel when they get all the blame alone for e.g. invading Iraq.

[Valmy]

Yes though that is a bad example. The Iraq invasion was pretty much our own initiative.

[crazy canuck]

One of the things I don't get about this and about the Eurozone crisis is how Germany got into the situation that everything the EU does is perceived as basically just what Germany wants. In this case, 24 countries voted in favor, four against. Yet the four rail apparently exclusively against Germany. I guess it makes me more understanding about how Americans feel when they get all the blame alone for e.g. invading Iraq.

Germany is the most influential nation in the EU.  If Germany had been against it then the vote would likely have been different.  Same with the American's influence in some international endeavors.  As an example the Canadian military would never have participated in Afghanistan if the Americans had not led the way.  I suspect many other nations are in the same situation.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

Just saying. If Europe wants to be a world leading society again they need these people

not really

[Zanza]

That's not an argument. If the other 23 nations had thought it's a bad idea, they could have voted against this and isolated Germany. Germany's power in the EU is soft power. We usually find enough like-minded countries to have a majority.

[Eddie Teach]

Just saying. If Europe wants to be a world leading society again they need these people

not really

I don't follow the logic. Small town loses people because it has no jobs for them. So migrants coming is an opportunity... to have more unemployed people in town?

[Crazy_Ivan80]

Not surprising those nation states, which have worked so long to purify themselves, are not enthusiastic about becoming multi-national societies. But what can you do?

multinational states don't have a good trackrecord, one wonders why a certain section of the populace wants to turn the whole world into a Balkansoup

[Barrister]

Not surprising those nation states, which have worked so long to purify themselves, are not enthusiastic about becoming multi-national societies. But what can you do?

multinational states don't have a good trackrecord, one wonders why a certain section of the populace wants to turn the whole world into a Balkansoup

Well the richest country in the world is a multi-ethnic state, so I wouldn't exactly say there's a bad track record.

[Valmy]

multinational states don't have a good trackrecord, one wonders why a certain section of the populace wants to turn the whole world into a Balkansoup

I am just giving my opinion here. Euro-land can handle this crisis however they want. My world already is Balkansoup.

Edit: Oh wait you were responding to the other post. I get why they do not want all these people, it would bring pretty significant changes to their societies.

[Zanza]

http://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2015/09/23/439260519/a-german-town-in-decline-sees-refugees-as-the-path-to-revival

Tucked away in the northeastern corner of Germany, not far from the Baltic coast, Friedland is a peaceful, rural town of about 5,000 people.

It wasn't always so quiet here. When it was part of communist East Germany, Friedland was an industrial hub, where massive processing plants turned beets into sugar and potatoes into powdered starch.

Like many others in the town, Wilfried Block, 58, used to work at the local potato starch factory. But when East and West Germany became one country again in 1990, things changed.

"The factories were shut down after reunification, and it hit us hard," Block says. "We lost 2,000 jobs in Friedland alone."

Block was lucky and found another job: He's been the mayor here since 1992. He says the town has invested heavily in regenerating itself.

"Our once gray, industrial town is now green and pleasant. But we've failed to keep people from leaving," he says.

Since reunification, more than 3,000 people, most of them young, have left Friedland in pursuit of job prospects in the West. They've left behind a diminished and aging population.

Block hopes to reverse the trend and sees a golden opportunity in the many migrants currently arriving in Germany.

This demographic shift is also typical in western Germany, but for different reasons. There are plenty of jobs and the economy is buoyant, but with one of the lowest birth rates in the world, Germany is short of workers — particularly in the skilled sectors.

Most all of Europe faces similar demographic challenges, but some analysts say that if properly handled, the current migrant crisis could be turned into the basis for future economic growth in Europe.

Just saying. If Europe wants to be a world leading society again they need these people

I doubt any immigrant will move anywhere near Friedland. It's really in the middle of nowhere. A bit closer to Poland and it might be interesting for affluent Polish commuters from Stettin that look for a cheap place to build a house. I heard some of the villages near Stettin try to attract Poles these days.
In general, I doubt that the refugees will be an economic benefit for Germany and if so, it will be minor. The motivation to allow them in should be what asylum is about, giving them peace from persecution and war. For economic migrants is fair to make a cost-benefit analysis and only accept those that will have a positive effect on the economy, i.e. well-qualified ones.
But none of them will move to Mecklenburg-Vorpommern. There are no jobs and just nothing there. Realistically, the area there will depopulate and there is not much we can do about it.

[crazy canuck]

That's not an argument. If the other 23 nations had thought it's a bad idea, they could have voted against this and isolated Germany. Germany's power in the EU is soft power. We usually find enough like-minded countries to have a majority.

Yeah, but that is what we are talking about.  Germany leads the way. 

[11B4V]

Not surprising those nation states, which have worked so long to purify themselves, are not enthusiastic about becoming multi-national societies. But what can you do?

multinational states don't have a good trackrecord, one wonders why a certain section of the populace wants to turn the whole world into a Balkansoup

I don't understand what you mean here.