EU Immigration Crisis Megathread

[Martinus]

Ok, migrants then. They want to settle in the EU, so they are not refugees. They are migrants. And calling them refugees when they are not really, also distorts the ethical discussion, and not in a productive way.

The Syrian ones are clearly refugees. Same with people fleeing from ISIS-controlled areas. 

[Tamas]

OR they are people who fled the war and decided to start a new life in Europe. They should be given a chance for that, too. Not universal, perhaps, but they should be given a chance to get that new, decent life in Europe.
They are, however, not refugees, strictly speaking.

Syrian refugees are the ones in Turkey, waiting for the war to end to go home.

[Josquius]

If I was worried about Islamic extremism then I wouldn't feel too secure in Turkey.

[Tamas]

If I was worried about Islamic extremism then I wouldn't feel too secure in Turkey.

True. Point is, we shouldn't pretend that those who struggle through Turkey and the Balkans (not to mention people from further away) come here just to hurry back home once its safe.

I understand why THEY pretend that, because otherwise they couldn't get in. But we do a disservice to them and ourselves if we don't identify them as what they are -migrants seeking a safe home- and come up with solutions to THAT problem, and not the problem of temporary refugees.

[Tamas]

Few points from a new bill in Hungary aimed at managing the whole situation:

-if a migrant rats on a human trafficker, gets "humanitarian visa" (meaning he can stay in the country on humanitarian grounds)
-accepted asylum seekers, as well as refugees in "protected" status (TBH I don't remember what that entails) will be eligible for family support payments (ain't that much money though)
-both accepted asylum seekers and "protected" people will be of local resident status in terms of the law
-accepted people will not be able to refuse the communal work they are assigned to

[Martinus]

Few points from a new bill in Hungary aimed at managing the whole situation:

-if a migrant rats on a human trafficker, gets "humanitarian visa" (meaning he can stay in the country on humanitarian grounds)
-accepted asylum seekers, as well as refugees in "protected" status (TBH I don't remember what that entails) will be eligible for family support payments (ain't that much money though)
-both accepted asylum seekers and "protected" people will be of local resident status in terms of the law
-accepted people will not be able to refuse the communal work they are assigned to

Of these points, the last one seems a bit dodgy. What does it mean? Will the work be properly paid? It sounds to me like a (shitty) mandatory zero hours contract - aka indentured servitude.

[Tamas]

"communal work" is what they have been alreaedy using for years to make unemployment disappear from the books.

It is paying roughly half of the minimum wage, and it is given to unemployed people. Unemployment benefits are temporary and even lower, so everyone has to use this.
Basically they are council landscapers, and also loaned out to friendly businesses.

It IS indentured servitude.

[Martinus]

"communal work" is what they have been alreaedy using for years to make unemployment disappear from the books.

It is paying roughly half of the minimum wage, and it is given to unemployed people. Unemployment benefits are temporary and even lower, so everyone has to use this.
Basically they are council landscapers, and also loaned out to friendly businesses.

It IS indentured servitude.

How can it pay below minimum wage? 

[Syt]

Fuck. Just ... fuck.

http://www.thelocal.at/20150827/horrible-migrant-tragedy-50-dead-in-austria

Migrant tragedy leaves dozens dead in Austria

Dozens of migrants have been found dead inside a truck on a highway in Austria, police said on Thursday.

The vehicle, which contained between 20 and 50 bodies, was found on a parking strip off the highway in Burgenland state, police spokesman Hans Peter Doskozil said at a  press conference with Interior Minister Johanna Mikl-Leitner.

"This tragedy affects us all deeply," Mikl-Leitner said.

"Human traffickers are criminals. Anyone still thinking that they're kind helpers cannot be helped."

It was not immediately clear how the migrants had died or how long they had been there.

The gruesome find comes as German Chancellor Angela Merkel and Balkan leaders are meeting in Vienna to seek how to tackle together the biggest migration crisis to hit Europe since World War II.

This year has seen record numbers of people trying to reach the European Union by sea and land as they flee conflict in Africa, Asia and the Middle East.

Ahead of the conference, Austria's Foreign Minister Sebastian Kurz warned that his country would consider introducing tougher anti-migration measures including "much tighter border controls", if the EU failed to come up with a unified response.

"Austria has more migrants than Italy and Greece combined... so we shouldn't pretend that only Italy and Greece are affected," he said in an interview with public broadcaster ORF.

[Tamas]

"communal work" is what they have been alreaedy using for years to make unemployment disappear from the books.

It is paying roughly half of the minimum wage, and it is given to unemployed people. Unemployment benefits are temporary and even lower, so everyone has to use this.
Basically they are council landscapers, and also loaned out to friendly businesses.

It IS indentured servitude.

How can it pay below minimum wage? 

Because that's what the law says.

[Martinus]

That's fucked up. It's more like slavery then.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

Fuck. Just ... fuck.

http://www.thelocal.at/20150827/horrible-migrant-tragedy-50-dead-in-austria

Migrant tragedy leaves dozens dead in Austria

Dozens of migrants have been found dead inside a truck on a highway in Austria, police said on Thursday.

The vehicle, which contained between 20 and 50 bodies, was found on a parking strip off the highway in Burgenland state, police spokesman Hans Peter Doskozil said at a  press conference with Interior Minister Johanna Mikl-Leitner.

"This tragedy affects us all deeply," Mikl-Leitner said.

"Human traffickers are criminals. Anyone still thinking that they're kind helpers cannot be helped."

It was not immediately clear how the migrants had died or how long they had been there.

The gruesome find comes as German Chancellor Angela Merkel and Balkan leaders are meeting in Vienna to seek how to tackle together the biggest migration crisis to hit Europe since World War II.

This year has seen record numbers of people trying to reach the European Union by sea and land as they flee conflict in Africa, Asia and the Middle East.

Ahead of the conference, Austria's Foreign Minister Sebastian Kurz warned that his country would consider introducing tougher anti-migration measures including "much tighter border controls", if the EU failed to come up with a unified response.

"Austria has more migrants than Italy and Greece combined... so we shouldn't pretend that only Italy and Greece are affected," he said in an interview with public broadcaster ORF.

reminds me of this: https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2000/06/immi-j21.html
it's not going to matter one bit.

[derspiess]

That's fucked up. It's more like slavery then.

I'm sure they're free to leave if they want.

[Syt]

It seems the truck had been left on the side of the autobahn since at least Wednesday. The refugees have been dead for a while - a road maintenance worker noticed that liquid was dripping from the van and alarmed the police. It turned out that the liquid comes from the decomposing bodies. Police are taking care to properly secure for evidence and leads, but time is pressing with over 30 degrees. So far there's been no clear number of deceased, but it's estimated to be between 20 and 50.

I don't envy the coroners and the police who have to secure the site.

[Crazy_Ivan80]

It seems the truck had been left on the side of the autobahn since at least Wednesday. The refugees have been dead for a while - a road maintenance worker noticed that liquid was dripping from the van and alarmed the police. It turned out that the liquid comes from the decomposing bodies. Police are taking care to properly secure for evidence and leads, but time is pressing with over 30 degrees. So far there's been no clear number of deceased, but it's estimated to be between 20 and 50.

I don't envy the coroners and the police who have to secure the site.

yuk. I had one run-in with a decomposing body as archaeologist and it was sufficient.

Hopefully they find those responsible