EU Immigration Crisis Megathread

[citizen k]

Did the world think these people would just stay put as their countries are torn apart by war and terrorism?

[Tonitrus]

"The World" probably hoped they'd just stay there and fight and die for their freedom (from war and terrorism).  A rather unrealistic expectation though.

People complain Amerikkka tries too much to be the world's policeman, and maybe that's true...but how about the world's Superman (though we suck at that too)? 

[Liep]

Danes can be idiots too! Cars burned and buildings vandalised in housings for asylum seekers in Jutland:

[Martinus]

This is shameful.

Czesław Miłosz, a Polish poet and 1980's literature Nobel Prize winner wrote a poem "A Poor Christian Looks at the Ghetto" which is about Warsaw inhabitants looking on, emotionlessly, at the Warsaw ghetto, while it is being "liquidated" by the nazis. I cannot help but think of similarities to this situation "poor Europeans" are inconvenienced by having to deal with the genuine, unimaginable tragedy of the asylum seekers - and somehow they think themselves, not the asylum seekers, to be the "victims".

[Tamas]

This is shameful.

Czesław Miłosz, a Polish poet and 1980's literature Nobel Prize winner wrote a poem "A Poor Christian Looks at the Ghetto" which is about Warsaw inhabitants looking on, emotionlessly, at the Warsaw ghetto, while it is being "liquidated" by the nazis. I cannot help but think of similarities to this situation "poor Europeans" are inconvenienced by having to deal with the genuine, unimaginable tragedy of the asylum seekers - and somehow they think themselves, not the asylum seekers, to be the "victims".

I 95% agree.

But we also should not forget that this is appearing to be a huge influx of people from a very different culture. CONCERNS of the native population over its effects and way it is handled presently are quite understandable. The ACTIONS of these people are deplorable indeed.

[Tamas]

Meanwhile record keep braking: yesterday Hungarian authorities registered 3000 new illegal immigrants.

[Tamas]

I have seen the pic of a displayed discussion topic on Hungarian state TV:

"Will there be more hyperactive children due to the migrants?"

Allegedly they quoted a German study about there being more hyperactive kids. And since Germany has a lot of immgirants, it is clear that the reason are:

[Martinus]

Meanwhile record keep braking: yesterday Hungarian authorities registered 3000 new illegal immigrants.

Are they illegal immigrants or asylum seekers? 

[Tamas]

Meanwhile record keep braking: yesterday Hungarian authorities registered 3000 new illegal immigrants.

Are they illegal immigrants or asylum seekers? 

Well they all apply for asylum and then almost all of them try to get going towrad Austria at the earliest opportunity.

For example just two days ago, a couple of hundred asylum seekers were waiting to be administered outside the premises of the reception center due to the center itself being choke full.
After a while they just vanished, no doubt walked on toward the West.

[Eddie Teach]

But we also should not forget that this is appearing to be a huge influx of people from a very different culture. CONCERNS of the native population over its effects and way it is handled presently are quite understandable. The ACTIONS of these people are deplorable indeed.

Keep in mind, the attacks and vandalism that get reported are occurring among a population of hundreds of millions of people with such concerns.

[Martinus]

This is shameful.

Czesław Miłosz, a Polish poet and 1980's literature Nobel Prize winner wrote a poem "A Poor Christian Looks at the Ghetto" which is about Warsaw inhabitants looking on, emotionlessly, at the Warsaw ghetto, while it is being "liquidated" by the nazis. I cannot help but think of similarities to this situation "poor Europeans" are inconvenienced by having to deal with the genuine, unimaginable tragedy of the asylum seekers - and somehow they think themselves, not the asylum seekers, to be the "victims".

I 95% agree.

But we also should not forget that this is appearing to be a huge influx of people from a very different culture. CONCERNS of the native population over its effects and way it is handled presently are quite understandable. The ACTIONS of these people are deplorable indeed.

That may be true, but given that Europe did not manage to come up with a succesful immigrant assimilation policy for the last 50 years or so, it is a bit  optimistic to think it will come up with one on a short notice now. Especially as right now we are dealing with a humanitarian crisis and people are dying.

So perhaps we should get back to this discussion when we satisfy these people's basic biological needs. Otherwise, it's a bit like stopping to lecture a patient, who has just been admitted to the trauma center, about the benefits of a properly balanced diet.

[Martinus]

Meanwhile record keep braking: yesterday Hungarian authorities registered 3000 new illegal immigrants.

Are they illegal immigrants or asylum seekers? 

Well they all apply for asylum and then almost all of them try to get going towrad Austria at the earliest opportunity.

For example just two days ago, a couple of hundred asylum seekers were waiting to be administered outside the premises of the reception center due to the center itself being choke full.
After a while they just vanished, no doubt walked on toward the West.

Well, so already the language you are using is abusive, given that you refer to them as "illegal immigrants".

[Tamas]

Meanwhile record keep braking: yesterday Hungarian authorities registered 3000 new illegal immigrants.

Are they illegal immigrants or asylum seekers? 

Well they all apply for asylum and then almost all of them try to get going towrad Austria at the earliest opportunity.

For example just two days ago, a couple of hundred asylum seekers were waiting to be administered outside the premises of the reception center due to the center itself being choke full.
After a while they just vanished, no doubt walked on toward the West.

Well, so already the language you are using is abusive, given that you refer to them as "illegal immigrants".

well, even if we say that they need to flee within EU borders to be safe (which is a stretch), they really have no reason to flee into Germany, Sweden, etc. If they are seeking to settle within the EU by crossing the borders without any paperwork, they are not refugees, they are immigrants, and due to current laws, illegal ones, at that.

As I kept saying here (and I really don't wish to re-state this, especially for you), I 100% understand why they are doing this and if I was born in any of the horrible shitholes they are coming from, I would be among them doing the same.
So they have all my sympathy.

However, a desire to live in the EU is not enough legal grounds to come in and leave in the EU. It simply cannot be, because the EU is the only semi-realistic chance for a decent life to around a billion people and we can't take that much.

[Martinus]

Bona fide asylum seekers are not illegal immigrants, as bona fide asylum seekers have a right to an asylum which is based in international treaties and domestic law. The decision of a state to grant an asylum status to a refugee is not a discretionary decision, as the state only ascertains whether objective criteria have been met - in that, it becomes a declaratory decision, in that if it is positive, it retroactively legalises the migration of the asylum seeker. Until the decision is given, the asylum seeker's status is uncertain but it does not mean it is illegal (similarly, as with a criminal court judgement, until the acquiting judgement is given, the defendant is not considered a criminal).

So yes, calling them illegal immigrants is both wrong and distorts the ethical aspect of the discussion.

[Tamas]

Ok, migrants then. They want to settle in the EU, so they are not refugees. They are migrants. And calling them refugees when they are not really, also distorts the ethical discussion, and not in a productive way.