EU Immigration Crisis Megathread

[Zanza]

I was way too optimistic when it came to the changed attitude in Germany that I described in this thread earlier. I guess it just took the Nazis some time to show up. 

What exactly did you base this optimism on? Have we not seen ethnic conflict in Europe going on for centuries? Heck look at some of the countries in the EU, like Cyprus and the Baltic States.

The opinion of official Germany and I think the majority is fairly welcoming. That made me optimistic. Still does.

But there are enough Nazis left I guess. And as Der Spiegel wrote, we should start calling them terrorists not just extreme right hooligans when they commit arson. Because that's their goal - spreading terror.

[The Brain]

Horror and moral terror are your friends.

[Valmy]

But there are enough Nazis left I guess. And as Der Spiegel wrote, we should start calling them terrorists not just extreme right hooligans when they commit arson. Because that's their goal - spreading terror.

I would be surprised if it is just Nazis who will be a problem going forward. Anyway the 'extreme right wing arsonist hooligan terrorists' I am sure will be very upset at being called another nasty name. Once you agree to be a Nazi nothing else is probably going to phase you.

[Tamas]

There's not many mass migrations that happened peacefully. Did anyone thing this time would be different? There's worse to come.

Especially ones like this. These people are not going there because they see their futures in Europe, they would rather have stayed home. But they cannot, so they have to go to whomever will take them. Just bad news.

This is the thing though, which complicates it greatly: yes, almost all of these migrants are coming from the worst shitholes of the planet. Yes, great many of them have fled their home country because of being in a warzone, or being part of a prosecuted minority, etc.

But almost a 100% of them are within EU borders because they seek not "only" safety from death but an actual restart of their lives with a chance of decent living.

And the EU has more decent living than 95% of the world population gets. Having a desire to share that simply cannot be reason enough to be let in.

When my grandparents fled the coming frontline in WW2 they fled as far as they had to, to keep away from harms way. The front caught up with them numerous times, they had their share of horror and what you could classify as adventures if you ignore the very real and major danger of death. They slep in camps, they slept at goodwilled strangers, just like they offered shelter to other refugges when their homes were further from the frontline.

They never got more than 40-60 kilometers from their home.

These "refugees" have no intention to be refugees seeking temporary shelter before returning home. They seek a new home. They are migrants. And I 100% understand them, if I was in their place I would be doing the exact same thing.

However, the number of people in the conflict zones they are coming from probably outnumber the EU as a whole. And this will increase especially in the Middle East where their version of the 30 years war is sure to escalate. I think the EU has to do two things quickly and decisively:
1. Try to help these people. There are only two final solutions to the migrants issue: helping them or killing them and the second option has been tried countless times, with a very low success rate
2. Do step one outside of EU borders somehow, and heavily penalise thus discourage actual illegal migration into the EU.

[Barrister]

There's not many mass migrations that happened peacefully. Did anyone thing this time would be different? There's worse to come.

Especially ones like this. These people are not going there because they see their futures in Europe, they would rather have stayed home. But they cannot, so they have to go to whomever will take them. Just bad news.

This is the thing though, which complicates it greatly: yes, almost all of these migrants are coming from the worst shitholes of the planet. Yes, great many of them have fled their home country because of being in a warzone, or being part of a prosecuted minority, etc.

But almost a 100% of them are within EU borders because they seek not "only" safety from death but an actual restart of their lives with a chance of decent living.

And the EU has more decent living than 95% of the world population gets. Having a desire to share that simply cannot be reason enough to be let in.

Why not?

[Tamas]

There's not many mass migrations that happened peacefully. Did anyone thing this time would be different? There's worse to come.

Especially ones like this. These people are not going there because they see their futures in Europe, they would rather have stayed home. But they cannot, so they have to go to whomever will take them. Just bad news.

This is the thing though, which complicates it greatly: yes, almost all of these migrants are coming from the worst shitholes of the planet. Yes, great many of them have fled their home country because of being in a warzone, or being part of a prosecuted minority, etc.

But almost a 100% of them are within EU borders because they seek not "only" safety from death but an actual restart of their lives with a chance of decent living.

And the EU has more decent living than 95% of the world population gets. Having a desire to share that simply cannot be reason enough to be let in.

Why not?

Why isn't it in Canada? You don't let everyone in. No country I know of has an open border.

[Barrister]

There's not many mass migrations that happened peacefully. Did anyone thing this time would be different? There's worse to come.

Especially ones like this. These people are not going there because they see their futures in Europe, they would rather have stayed home. But they cannot, so they have to go to whomever will take them. Just bad news.

This is the thing though, which complicates it greatly: yes, almost all of these migrants are coming from the worst shitholes of the planet. Yes, great many of them have fled their home country because of being in a warzone, or being part of a prosecuted minority, etc.

But almost a 100% of them are within EU borders because they seek not "only" safety from death but an actual restart of their lives with a chance of decent living.

And the EU has more decent living than 95% of the world population gets. Having a desire to share that simply cannot be reason enough to be let in.

Why not?

Why isn't it in Canada? You don't let everyone in. No country I know of has an open border.

We have a hell of a more open border than, say, Hungary does.

[Tamas]

There's not many mass migrations that happened peacefully. Did anyone thing this time would be different? There's worse to come.

Especially ones like this. These people are not going there because they see their futures in Europe, they would rather have stayed home. But they cannot, so they have to go to whomever will take them. Just bad news.

This is the thing though, which complicates it greatly: yes, almost all of these migrants are coming from the worst shitholes of the planet. Yes, great many of them have fled their home country because of being in a warzone, or being part of a prosecuted minority, etc.

But almost a 100% of them are within EU borders because they seek not "only" safety from death but an actual restart of their lives with a chance of decent living.

And the EU has more decent living than 95% of the world population gets. Having a desire to share that simply cannot be reason enough to be let in.

Why not?

Why isn't it in Canada? You don't let everyone in. No country I know of has an open border.

We have a hell of a more open border than, say, Hungary does.

But you don't let everyone in. If a mass migration was pouring over your borders, you wouldn't just settle them all.

[Eddie Teach]

When it happens, they won't have a choice. 

[Syt]

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-33729024

Dogs and fencing for Calais to help with migrant crisis

Extra sniffer dogs and fencing will be sent to Calais to help deal with the migrant crisis, the prime minister has announced.

Speaking after chairing a meeting of the Cobra emergency committee, David Cameron said the situation was "not acceptable".

It follows a fourth night of disruption at the Calais Eurotunnel terminal.

"This is going to be a difficult issue right across the summer," Mr Cameron warned.

"We are absolutely on it. We know it needs more work," he said.

"We rule nothing out in dealing with this very serious problem."

'Wrong way around'

The prime minister spoke after migrants made fresh attempts to enter the tunnel on a fourth night of incidents in Calais.

He said he would be speaking to French president Francois Hollande later on Friday and thanked the French for providing extra police at the Eurotunnel site which had already had "some effect".

"We are keen to work hand in glove with them to reduce pressure on that side of the border," added Mr Cameron.

He also said Ministry of Defence land would be made available to help relieve traffic problems in Kent as thousands of lorries are still queuing on the M20 due to Channel disruptions.

UKIP leader Nigel Farage told BBC Radio Leeds freight could start moving again quickly if lorries were diverted to other ports, like Ramsgate.

He said: "There's a big harbour there which can take medium-sized vessels. We can go across to Dunkirk, or even up to Ostend or Zeebrugge.

"We could actually start moving some lorries. I think we are getting this completely the wrong way around."

Travel latest
- M20 closed coast-bound from J8 to J11 for the Operation Stack freight queue
- The wait for lorries in the stack is up to five hours to Dover ferry port and three hours to Eurotunnel
- Eurotunnel says its passenger services are running with a delay of an hour on the UK side and a normal service on the French side
- Freight services face a 90-minute delay before check-in on the UK side, with a normal service on the French side
- DFDS Seaways says services on its Dover-Calais route are operating within 30 minutes of schedule
- P&O ferries said its services are operating within 30 minutes of schedule between Dover and Calais.
-Eurostar trains are currently running on time

[Syt]

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-33750336

Calais migrant crisis: UK and France urge EU action

The UK and France have urged other EU nations to help address the root causes of the Calais migrant crisis.

In the Sunday Telegraph, Home Secretary Theresa May and her French counterpart Bernard Cazeneuve said it was part of a "global migration crisis".

Migrants in Calais are making nightly bids to cross the Channel, leading to delays on cross-Channel services.

Meanwhile, the Home Office said support could end for failed asylum-seekers, to discourage illegal migration.

Bolstered security measures planned for around the French end of the Channel Tunnel, which include more CCTV surveillance, French police reinforcements and extra fencing, were agreed between Prime Minister David Cameron and President Francois Hollande on Friday.

There have been thousands of attempts by migrants to access the Eurotunnel terminal in the last week.

A man believed to be Sudanese was killed on Tuesday night while attempting to make the journey, the ninth person to die while trying to access the tunnel since the start of June.

Eurotunnel passenger services from the UK to France are currently delayed by about 30 minutes due to what Eurotunnel described as an "earlier incident" in the terminal. There is no delay to passenger services from the French side.

Freight journeys from France were earlier delayed but are now operating to schedule.

In their Telegraph piece, Mrs May and Mr Cazeneuve wrote: "This situation cannot be seen as an issue just for our two countries.

"It is a priority at both a European and international level."

They said many migrants in Calais had travelled through Italy, Greece and other countries, which was why they were pushing for other EU countries to "address this problem at root".

The "link between crossing the Mediterranean and achieving settlement in Europe for economic reasons" must be broken, they wrote.

They suggested that the long-term solution would be to persuade would-be migrants hoping for a better life in Europe that "our streets are not paved with gold".

A Downing Street spokesman said the prime minister wanted to see "more security and tougher action at the border".

Details of the security measures agreed between the two countries include:

- Extra private security guards, funded by the UK, to boost an existing 200-strong team
- An increased presence of French police on the borders throughout the summer
- Additional fencing, funded by the UK, to be installed around the Eurotunnel perimeter as required, with higher boundaries and extra layers where necessary and a large metal barrier to protect Eurotunnel platforms
- Extra CCTV, infra-red detectors and floodlighting to secure key segments of the perimeter fence

The No 10 spokesman added: "On top of that, we want to help those being affected by the disruption, including securing additional parking zones in Kent to reduce the impact on local residents and businesses."

Operation Stack - the police scheme of closing part of the M20 in Kent to park lorries - was in place for part of Saturday but has now been lifted.

Immigration minister James Brokenshire said rules could be changed to remove taxpayer support for more than 10,000 failed asylum-seekers living in the UK with their families.

In the UK, migrants can obtain accommodation and a support allowance worth £36 a week from the moment they claim asylum.

This is withdrawn from individuals whose application fails - but failed asylum-seekers with families continue to receive support.

Mr Brokenshire said: "I want to introduce new rules to support those who genuinely need it, but send out a very clear message to those who seek to exploit the system that Britain is not a soft touch on asylum."

Shadow immigration minister David Hanson said the government needed to put diplomatic pressure on the French government to assess migrants in Calais to determine if they had proper asylum seeker or refugee status or were in the country illegally.

He said: "If those people were in Dover do you think the UK authorities would allow illegal immigrants, or people not yet claiming asylum or refugee status, to be in Dover? They wouldn't."

The Liberal Democrat leader, Tim Farron, urged the government to treat asylum seekers "humanely", adding that the situation in Calais was "the tip of a humanitarian crisis".

The Daily Mail meanwhile continues a proud tradition:

[The Larch]

Some dude in Saxony does the nazi salute upon seeing a demonstration in favour of refugee hosting in Germany without realizing there's a cop behind him, immediately regrets it.

[Eddie Teach]

"I was just stretching my arm.  "

[Syt]

The embarassing thing is there's more than 3 million refugees living in Lebanon, Turkey and Jordan alone. And some people in Europe consider it the end of civilization if a dozen of them are given quarter in their home town. In Austria, according to the UNHCR, refugees are less than half a percent of the population.

[The Brain]

The embarassing thing is there's more than 3 million refugees living in Lebanon, Turkey and Jordan alone. And some people in Europe consider it the end of civilization if a dozen of them are given quarter in their home town. In Austria, according to the UNHCR, refugees are less than half a percent of the population.

Are say Syrian refugees in Turkey immigrants on track towards Turkish citizenship?