David Frum: What If the Allies Had Lost World War One?

[Admiral Yi]

maybe, or maybe things might have gone rather well with Britain no longer in the position to play it's Balance of Power games at the expense of others. We'll never know.

The expansive hegemon obviously loses, but you seem to suggest others do as well.

[crazy canuck]

Actually, it is not - because the point he was making is that it wasn't much a democracy in the context of the idea that the US entered the war to protect democracies, as opposed to the idea of democracy (as identified at that time by the US).

What democracy would you rate as better than that of the democracy found in Britain, Australia, Canada and New Zealand during that period of time?   If you want to answer the US, as Frum thinks, then you will have to explain away all the restrictions the US Federal and State governments put on the Franchise until about the 1960s 

[Barrister]

Actually, it is not - because the point he was making is that it wasn't much a democracy in the context of the idea that the US entered the war to protect democracies, as opposed to the idea of democracy (as identified at that time by the US).

What democracy would you rate as better than that of the democracy found in Britain, Australia, Canada and New Zealand during that period of time?   If you want to answer the US, as Frum thinks, then you will have to explain away all the restrictions the US Federal and State governments put on the Franchise until about the 1960s 

Well the trouble with British democracy is that the vote did not extend to the many millions of brown people under its control in the colonies...

[crazy canuck]

Actually, it is not - because the point he was making is that it wasn't much a democracy in the context of the idea that the US entered the war to protect democracies, as opposed to the idea of democracy (as identified at that time by the US).

What democracy would you rate as better than that of the democracy found in Britain, Australia, Canada and New Zealand during that period of time?   If you want to answer the US, as Frum thinks, then you will have to explain away all the restrictions the US Federal and State governments put on the Franchise until about the 1960s 

Well the trouble with British democracy is that the vote did not extend to the many millions of brown people under its control in the colonies...

Sure.  I am not arguing the voter participation rate was what it should have been.  But it had voters and a participation rate we can argue about. Claiming it was not a democracy seems odd.  Particularly given the context of the other democracies to choose from at the time.

[Razgovory]

Actually, it is not - because the point he was making is that it wasn't much a democracy in the context of the idea that the US entered the war to protect democracies, as opposed to the idea of democracy (as identified at that time by the US).

What democracy would you rate as better than that of the democracy found in Britain, Australia, Canada and New Zealand during that period of time?   If you want to answer the US, as Frum thinks, then you will have to explain away all the restrictions the US Federal and State governments put on the Franchise until about the 1960s 

Canada, Australia and New Zealand weren't independent countries at the time.

[Malthus]

Actually, it is not - because the point he was making is that it wasn't much a democracy in the context of the idea that the US entered the war to protect democracies, as opposed to the idea of democracy (as identified at that time by the US).

What democracy would you rate as better than that of the democracy found in Britain, Australia, Canada and New Zealand during that period of time?   If you want to answer the US, as Frum thinks, then you will have to explain away all the restrictions the US Federal and State governments put on the Franchise until about the 1960s 

Well the trouble with British democracy is that the vote did not extend to the many millions of brown people under its control in the colonies...

As opposed to the US, where the vote did not extend to many millions of brown people right at home. 

[Razgovory]

Incidentally, I think David Frum is a Canadian.  Also the Grandson of a god in Micronesia.

[crazy canuck]

Incidentally, I think David Frum is a Canadian.  Also the Grandson of a god in Micronesia.

Yes, the Son of a much beloved CBC News personality.  Barbara Frum.

David Frum is smitten with his particular view of what the US represents.   For reference you can read some of his work when he was a speech writer for Bush. 

[Razgovory]

Oh, I remember.  I remember him back from the 1990's.

[Norgy]

Actually, it is not - because the point he was making is that it wasn't much a democracy in the context of the idea that the US entered the war to protect democracies, as opposed to the idea of democracy (as identified at that time by the US).

What democracy would you rate as better than that of the democracy found in Britain, Australia, Canada and New Zealand during that period of time?   If you want to answer the US, as Frum thinks, then you will have to explain away all the restrictions the US Federal and State governments put on the Franchise until about the 1960s 

Canada, Australia and New Zealand weren't independent countries at the time.

Uhm? What?

[The Minsky Moment]

Incidentally, I think David Frum is a Canadian.  Also the Grandson of a god in Micronesia.

He's badly mis-named.  Although Jewish, he is not actually frum.

[Razgovory]

 

[dps]

Actually, it is not - because the point he was making is that it wasn't much a democracy in the context of the idea that the US entered the war to protect democracies, as opposed to the idea of democracy (as identified at that time by the US).

What democracy would you rate as better than that of the democracy found in Britain, Australia, Canada and New Zealand during that period of time?   If you want to answer the US, as Frum thinks, then you will have to explain away all the restrictions the US Federal and State governments put on the Franchise until about the 1960s 

Why would you have to explain it away, at least in comparison to the UK (not sure about the Dominions), as even with "all the restrictions", a larger percentage of the US population was eligible to vote?

[crazy canuck]

Actually, it is not - because the point he was making is that it wasn't much a democracy in the context of the idea that the US entered the war to protect democracies, as opposed to the idea of democracy (as identified at that time by the US).

What democracy would you rate as better than that of the democracy found in Britain, Australia, Canada and New Zealand during that period of time?   If you want to answer the US, as Frum thinks, then you will have to explain away all the restrictions the US Federal and State governments put on the Franchise until about the 1960s 

Why would you have to explain it away, at least in comparison to the UK (not sure about the Dominions), as even with "all the restrictions", a larger percentage of the US population was eligible to vote?

Because that is the way Frum describes it.  For Frum, and the position Berkut is defending, the US was a shining beacon of democracy compared to the alternatives.  If the US had a larger percentage of adults who were allowed to vote, it wasn't by much of a percentage.

Put another way, only a US audience would buy the fact that Britain was not a democracy during WWI.

[Norgy]

dps, did you miss the Civil Rights Movement? I'd have thought you and grumbler were old enough to actually experience it.