Putin's Bikers on Red Army Victory Tour

[Syt]

http://tass.ru/en/russia/791948

Russian bikers participating in Moscow-Berlin motocross reach Polish border

More than 100 Polish Katyn Raid bikers are waiting for Russian motorcyclists to cross the border

WARSAW, April 27. /TASS/. Bikers from Russia's Night Wolves club have reached the border with Poland on Monday. The bikers participating in the Moscow-Berlin motocross dedicated to the 70th anniversary of Victory Day are now undergoing border control procedures.

"Border guards will act in compliance with existing legislature," a press secretary of the border control department told TASS, adding that they will check the bikers' documents.

Polish media reported earlier that border guards will scrupulously check every Russian on a motorcycle, look for Night Wolves badges in order to prevent bikers from the club from entering the country as individual motorcyclists.

According to a preliminary plan, participants of the motocross will head for Warsaw after crossing the border. In the Polish capital, they will lay wreaths at the Soviet Military Cemetery, at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier and at the Volyn Park.

More than 100 Polish Katyn Raid bikers are waiting for Russian motorcyclists to cross the border. "If Russian motorcyclists are attacked, it will be a disgrace for us. In Poland, all bikers are our guests. We must help them and protect them," head of Katyn Raid biker club Viktor Vengzhin said.

On April 25, Russian motorcyclists started Moscow-Berlin motocross which will pass through Minsk, Brest, Wroclaw, Brno, Bratislava, Vienna  , Munich and Prague.

The Polish authorities have not allowed Russian bikers from the "Night Wolves" club to ride through the Polish territory, saying the motocross represents "a political provocation." The decision came in spite of remarks by Poland's former Prime Minister Leszek Miller who called the step "a political paranoia."

The Polish Interior Ministry sent a note to the Russian Embassy in Poland "containing information on refusing entry to the territory of Poland to an organized group of motorcyclists, including representatives of the Night Wolves club."

President of the Night Wolves club Alexander Zaldostanov said this will not affect the motocross.

[Martinus]

Polish media reported earlier that border guards will scrupulously check every Russian on a motorcycle, look for Night Wolves badges in order to prevent bikers from the club from entering the country as individual motorcyclists.

Why? 

[grumbler]

Since Americans love to justify their annexation of New Mexico, Arizona and Texas with "there were few Mexicans there anyway",

what

Don't question Martim's mastery of American culture.  He just had lunch with the ambassador from Texas, and the ambassador told him how Americans love to justify annexations.

[grumbler]

  Yeah, somebody didn't get the joke; well, somebody besides maybe Raz - I can't tell if Raz is playing along with the joke or thinks he is insulting me through smarm.

[Neil]

Putin was a man that could be worked with.  I feel that if the West was willing to play the give and take of diplomacy, Putin could probably be dealt with.  However, at this point, Putin is well aware that the West expects Russia to give whatever they ask, in exchange for nothing.  Did people really think that they could just carve countries out of Russia's sphere and that the Russians wouldn't react?

You have got to be joking, Neil. You're a fairly reasonable man. But you don't live in a country neighbouring Russia.
Putin is a mad dog that needs to be put down. Plain and simple.
If that means upping the defence budget tenfold, so be it. I, for one, won't stand for what Putin does.

Putin will mind his own business if we mind what he sees as ours.  That said, our businesses are mutually incompatible.

[Valmy]

I think Irkutsk is to Russia as Reunion Island is to France.

Martim:  AMERIKKKA IS EVUL!

[Martim Silva]

Well, now let's hope that Poland stops the Night Wolves as they should. Just in case they fail to do so [trust in Polish capabilities is... low], Germany also banned them.

To the core of the issue: yes, the EU is messing in Russia's direct sphere of influence. This was unavoidable - we are creating a rising European power, Russia is a declining one. Eventually our interests would clash. At least it is over a worthy prize, the Ukraine.

So far, things have been going well. As long as we have the Ukraine, we get strategic relevance not only in Eastern Europe, but we can project it towards the Caucasus (hence the negotiations with Georgia). This is good, but also means the relations with Moscow will become gelid - without at least the Ukraine, Russia cannot hope to regain its Imperial status.

Putin will mind his own business if we mind what he sees as ours.  That said, our businesses are mutually incompatible.

Correct.

I think Irkutsk is to Russia as Reunion Island is to France.

Martim:  AMERIKKKA IS EVUL!

Not my point at all. You like to dream?

I was just pointing out that direct comparisions (especially the inane ones being made by Grumbler) were nonsensical.

And also venting at a pet peeve of mine, the prevaling idea that "Empires are Evil" and anything associated with them must be done away with.

I mentioned the Mexican Cession [and yes, the 'lands were mostly unhinhabited' is the first argument used by Americans in defense of their annexation, closely followed by the 'but we paid for them' one, not my fault that you as Americans never question this among yourselves] because it was a purely Imperial war to enlarge America.

It is, therefore, a great example to give to many Americans that Empire-building does have its benefits. If all relating to it is bad, then those lands would have to be returned. Which is not a good idea for any American.

And the Alaska was just an analogy so that you get an idea of what Russia thinks about Ukraine, the Crimea and the West's offers (for Russia, the Ukraine isn't a 'real' nation, not even a 'real' state; it is just an artificial creation, and its existance can only be justified by it being propped by outside powers. The EU sees it otherwise, but that will hardly stop the Kremlin from being infuriated at losing one of the most important provinces of its 'Empire'.

And for the record, it's hardly just America that does this. France also goes ballistic over stuff happening in it's 'sphere of influence', which are its former colonies in Africa, for example. And Italy has been taking quite an interest in its former colony of Libya that seems to go beyond the migrant question, just to say two european cases.

[Valmy]

Not my point at all. You like to dream?

I thought it was funny we went right from Palestine and Chechnya right to an attack on my state. It seems the USA annexed us not because we begged them to do so but because there was a lack of Mexicans here. And it is true, there were no Mexicans here only proud Tejanos who were not going to put up with Mexico City's autocratic shit. Who died for Texas' independence. Though annexation did not go well for them at all unfortunately, at least for awhile.

[Syt]

And it is true, there were no Mexicans here only proud Tejanos who were not going to put up with Mexico City's autocratic shit.

Like banning slavery.

[DGuller]

And it is true, there were no Mexicans here only proud Tejanos who were not going to put up with Mexico City's autocratic shit.

Like banning slavery.

Free-market interference.  People were slaves because they didn't have better options.

[Admiral Yi]

And the Alaska was just an analogy so that you get an idea of what Russia thinks about Ukraine, the Crimea and the West's offers (for Russia, the Ukraine isn't a 'real' nation, not even a 'real' state; it is just an artificial creation, and its existance can only be justified by it being propped by outside powers. The EU sees it otherwise, but that will hardly stop the Kremlin from being infuriated at losing one of the most important provinces of its 'Empire'.

I find it interesting that never once in your remarks about the Ukraine have you mentioned the Ukrainian people.

[grumbler]

Not my point at all. You like to dream?

I thought it was funny we went right from Palestine and Chechnya right to an attack on my state. It seems the USA annexed us not because we begged them to do so but because there was a lack of Mexicans here. And it is true, there were no Mexicans here only proud Tejanos who were not going to put up with Mexico City's autocratic shit. Who died for Texas' independence. Though annexation did not go well for them at all unfortunately, at least for awhile.

Don't dream that you know more about Texas history than the Texas ambassador told Martim! 

The Palestine and Chechnya stuff was a joke on my part, playing up to Neil's shtick about how Russia's "territories were sliced away."  Your Reunion Island bit fit that spirit perfectly.

I find it highly amusing that Martim, the champion of the anti-colonial "Union," argues that Britain is worse off for having dumped its empire, justifying his stance with a horrific racist lie.  Racist Martim isn't as funny as Marxist Martim was.

[Valmy]

Like banning slavery.

There were few slaves in Texas at the time. Which is why there was talk of splitting us up into multiple free and slave states in order to make annexation less destabilizing. Of course once Annexation was official slave owners from the South flooded in for the cheap land and put a stop to that. But a large portion of Mexico rose up against Mexico City, along with the Yucatan and the Rio Grande valley. Did they have slaves as well? Do you really think the entire nationwide revolt was because of a few slaves in East Texas? And the Tejanos owned a statistically insignificant amount of them. Yet they were active participants in the revolt.

[Valmy]

Free-market interference.  People were slaves because they didn't have better options.

The Yucatan demanded its slaves be preserved!

[Syt]

Like banning slavery.

There were few slaves in Texas at the time. Which is why there was talk of splitting us up into multiple free and slave states in order to make annexation less destabilizing. Of course once Annexation was official slave owners from the South flooded in for the cheap land and put a stop to that. But a large portion of Mexico rose up against Mexico City, along with the Yucatan and the Rio Grande valley. Did they have slaves as well? Do you really think the entire nationwide revolt was because of a few slaves in East Texas? And the Tejanos owned a statistically insignificant amount of them. Yet they were active participants in the revolt.

Quit confusing my simplistic view of other countries' histories with facts!