NCAA Football 2015

[Valmy]

I've felt a great disturbance in the force. As if millions thousands hundreds dozens of voices suddenly cried out in terror, and were suddenly silenced. I feel something terrible has happened.

The Miami alumni were sure all over twitter. I won't be surprised if the big story later today is Miami looking for the next Schnellenberger.

What I meant is I wouldn't be surprised if the big story later Sunday is Miami looking for the next Schnellenberger.

Hey any Miami recruits want to play for Charlie Strong?

[alfred russel]

Goodbye Al Golden.

Praise Jesus.

I almost felt bad for the guy. Basically everyone wanted him fired at the end of last year. Then this season has been such a clusterfuck, it has to be incredibly difficult to live in Miami when no one likes you. He doesn't have ties to the school or to South Florida, so he doesn't really have a support base to lean on. I'd watch his recent press conferences just to see if he was going to be able to keep a brave face up. Firing him was probably part mercy killing.

[Ed Anger]

I watched that game against Clemson and I was feeling sorry for the U. A team I never liked. Other than watching that bit about the cotton bowl against Texas in that 30 for 30 film.

[dps]

Not too many Schnellenbergers out there.  But Miami doesn't really need another Schellenberger--the program doesn't need to be totally rebuilt the way it was when Schnellenberger got there.  They'd probably be happy enough with another Jimmy Johnson.

George O'Leary retired at UCF, so it you're a coach who'd like to live in Florida, Miami isn't the only HC job open there.

[alfred russel]

Hey any Miami recruits want to play for Charlie Strong?

Well, I was starting to reply that you probably don't want them, understandably recruiting is kind of meh at this point, and the committed guys were either really stupid to think that Golden wouldn't get fired or were just committed to the U regardless of the coach. Most of the really top guys that have committed are going to the Gators or Noles.

But then I checked out Texas, who is way down the rankings. Either Strong is struggling to recruit, or he is enabling recruits to hold off until the end to announce their commitments.

[alfred russel]

Not too many Schnellenbergers out there.  But Miami doesn't really need another Schellenberger--the program doesn't need to be totally rebuilt the way it was when Schnellenberger got there.  They'd probably be happy enough with another Jimmy Johnson.

Wait a second.

Jimmy Johnson started in 1984. His first year the team was kind of meh, like 7-5, with one of the losses being the Hail Flutie.

His second year the team was better, they lost the Sugar Bowl to Tennessee.

1986 was an 11-1 juggernaut: the team that lost to Penn State in the Fiesta.

1987 was undefeated national champs.

1988 was 11-1, with the loss being to Notre Dame 31-30 with really poor officiating that got a critical call egregiously wrong at the end.

He departed that season, and the team he left behind won the 1989 and 1991 national titles.

Jimmy Johnson is the gold standard of UM coaches. I think most fans would put him ahead of Schnelly, though those guys are clearly 1 & 2.

[dps]

Not too many Schnellenbergers out there.  But Miami doesn't really need another Schellenberger--the program doesn't need to be totally rebuilt the way it was when Schnellenberger got there.  They'd probably be happy enough with another Jimmy Johnson.

Wait a second.

Jimmy Johnson started in 1984. His first year the team was kind of meh, like 7-5, with one of the losses being the Hail Flutie.

His second year the team was better, they lost the Sugar Bowl to Tennessee.

1986 was an 11-1 juggernaut: the team that lost to Penn State in the Fiesta.

1987 was undefeated national champs.

1988 was 11-1, with the loss being to Notre Dame 31-30 with really poor officiating that got a critical call egregiously wrong at the end.

He departed that season, and the team he left behind won the 1989 and 1991 national titles.

Jimmy Johnson is the gold standard of UM coaches. I think most fans would put him ahead of Schnelly, though those guys are clearly 1 & 2.

Johnson may have had a better overall record, but he took over a much stronger program than Schnellenberger.  Pre-Schnellenberger, the team was so bad, they considered shutting down the program.  Obviously, you're in a better position than I am to speak for the fans, but from outside, it's clear that Schnellenberger built the program and Johnson just maintained and improved it.  Not that the latter isn't impressive;  after all, lots of guys have taken over good programs and seen them slip on their watch.

[alfred russel]

Johnson may have had a better overall record, but he took over a much stronger program than Schnellenberger.  Pre-Schnellenberger, the team was so bad, they considered shutting down the program.  Obviously, you're in a better position than I am to speak for the fans, but from outside, it's clear that Schnellenberger built the program and Johnson just maintained and improved it.  Not that the latter isn't impressive;  after all, lots of guys have taken over good programs and seen them slip on their watch.

Yeah, that is basically the crux of it.

If you look at the team's history though, it wasn't that bad pre Schnellenberger--the 70s were not great, but prior to that the program was at parity if not a bit ahead of UF and FSU. What was killing Miami and the reason they were considering shutting down the program was a problem that continues to exist today: lack of fan support. (of course it was dramatically worse before the program had so much success)

Miami has had two runs of greatness that the fan base associates itself with: the late 80s/early 90s, and the late 90s/early 2000s.

The first stretch was all Jimmy Johnson. Schnellenberger won a national title, but it was a bit flukey--the team went into the game against Nebraska heavy underdogs and ranked #4. The team won 3 that were clearly not flukes under Johnson and Dennis Erickson, but Dennis Erickson doesn't get much love since the program was in a constant decline on his watch as the Jimmy Johnson players ran out.

No coach gets great love for the second run, since Butch Davis built the juggernaut, but went to the NFL before the title and Larry Coker got the national title but suffered from Dennis Erickson syndrome on steroids.

Schnellenberger definitely laid the foundation. In the pantheon of Miami coaches, it is definitely Johnson and Schellenberger in some order of #1 and #2.

[Valmy]

But then I checked out Texas, who is way down the rankings. Either Strong is struggling to recruit, or he is enabling recruits to hold off until the end to announce their commitments.

This is just how he recruits. He gets his commitments really late. He encourages guys to look around and commit late. I expect another top 10 recruiting class when all is said and done.

[Valmy]

No coach gets great love for the second run, since Butch Davis built the juggernaut, but went to the NFL before the title and Larry Coker got the national title but suffered from Dennis Erickson syndrome on steroids.

I wonder if Butch would make a different decision if he had to do it all over again.

[MadBurgerMaker]

This is just how he recruits. He gets his commitments really late. He encourages guys to look around and commit late. I expect another top 10 recruiting class when all is said and done.

He's pretty much the exact opposite of Mack.

[alfred russel]

No coach gets great love for the second run, since Butch Davis built the juggernaut, but went to the NFL before the title and Larry Coker got the national title but suffered from Dennis Erickson syndrome on steroids.

I wonder if Butch would make a different decision if he had to do it all over again.

When he left Miami, there were probably issues that would have the NCAA come back. His stint at North Carolina totally melted down in NCAA chaos. Not sure how well he would last as a long term college coach, which might be a consideration when thinking about rehiring him. 

[MadImmortalMan]

1986 was an 11-1 juggernaut: the team that lost to Penn State in the Fiesta.

Heh. Wasn't that the camo douchebag bowl? 

[alfred russel]

1986 was an 11-1 juggernaut: the team that lost to Penn State in the Fiesta.

Heh. Wasn't that the camo douchebag bowl? 

That was awesome.

Penn State obviously won the game 14-10, but it was one of those games that if they played a dozen times, Penn State would probably only win that one. Miami outgained Penn State 445-162, and had 22 first downs vs. 8 for Penn State. The difference was that Miami turned the ball over 7 times. Testaverde kept audibling into plays during which he would throw interceptions, Jimmy Johnson told him to stop audibling, but Testaverde kept audibling and throwing interceptions anyway. From what I understand they have basically refused to speak after the game, blaming each other for the debacle.

Lots of Miami fans have noted that Al Golden played for Penn State during that era. There was the whole "Paterno versus Johnson" aspect to the game with the sportsmanlike Nittany Lions contrasting with the camo geared thugs from Miami. Hiring Al Golden has been complained about as the Miami administration trying to transplant the Penn State culture onto Miami. During this last offseason there was a photographer that did some shots with the team and a number of them involved faux gay poses with the Miami players. Those pictures were not only contrasted with the camo pictures in how the players are presented to the world, but also have gotten some unfortunate remarks about the Sandusky / Penn State influence making its way into the program. 

[Valmy]

Yeah well we sure know now who the real outlaw program was.