Pakistani man kills 14 over wedding objections.

Started by jimmy olsen, April 06, 2015, 05:50:53 PM

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Eddie Teach

Quote from: Martinus on April 07, 2015, 01:41:57 AM
It appears the author of the article is - either rightly or wrongly - implying it is.

That he has accomplices suggests that too.

To sleep, perchance to dream. But in that sleep of death, what dreams may come?

grumbler

Quote from: Peter Wiggin on April 07, 2015, 03:43:56 AM
Quote from: Martinus on April 07, 2015, 01:41:57 AM
It appears the author of the article is - either rightly or wrongly - implying it is.

That he has accomplices suggests that too.

The guy who built the bombs for the Boston Marathon had accomplices.

I don't think that these killings can be considered honor killings at all.  they seem to be, as DG mentions, the actions of a murderous loon.  Had he not started killing out of frustrations over his marriage, he'd likely have done so for some other frustrations in fairly short order.
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

Malthus

This certainly is not what is usually meant by an "honour killing".

Such killings have express or implicit sanction by some section of the local culture - they are motivated when someone breaks cultural norms (for example, a daughter who has sex out of wedlock, or a child who defies their parents' choice of marriage-partner, or who is gay). The "honour" of the family is seen as impaired by the actions of the child, leading to the murder of the child.

There is no cultural sanction anywhere that encourages one to kill one's own family because they oppose a child's marriage. That totally reverses the dynamic of an "honour killing".
The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane—Marcus Aurelius

Tamas

3 fucking post and everyone attacking each other for supposedly questionable choices of words. Grumbler's influence is growing

Valmy

That is one way to get somebody to forever hold their peace.
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Zmiinyi defenders: "Russian warship, go fuck yourself."

Eddie Teach

Quote from: grumbler on April 07, 2015, 06:32:29 AM
The guy who built the bombs for the Boston Marathon had accomplices.

That guy had a Cause. This case was a personal vendetta. It's possible the dude had a cult-like influence on some of his friends and could just get people to do his bidding, but more likely they agreed that he had been unconscionably wronged.
To sleep, perchance to dream. But in that sleep of death, what dreams may come?

grumbler

Quote from: Tamas on April 07, 2015, 10:58:59 AM
3 fucking post and everyone attacking each other for supposedly questionable choices of words. Grumbler's influence is growing
:lmfao:  No.  You need to look up the term "honor killing."  it has an actual meaning that isn't dependent on your perception of " questionable choices of words."  Once you understand what the words mean, you will understand the discussion.
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

grumbler

Quote from: Peter Wiggin on April 07, 2015, 11:04:53 AM
Quote from: grumbler on April 07, 2015, 06:32:29 AM
The guy who built the bombs for the Boston Marathon had accomplices.

That guy had a Cause. This case was a personal vendetta. It's possible the dude had a cult-like influence on some of his friends and could just get people to do his bidding, but more likely they agreed that he had been unconscionably wronged.

The perps in honor killings don't generally go on the lam (why should they?  They did nothing wrong).  I think you are making a mountain out of the molehill that this perp may (or may not) have had accomplices.

You could be right, but there's lots to indicate that you probably are not.
The future is all around us, waiting, in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation. No one knows the shape of that future or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.   -G'Kar

Bayraktar!

garbon

Quote from: grumbler on April 07, 2015, 11:24:02 AM
Quote from: Tamas on April 07, 2015, 10:58:59 AM
3 fucking post and everyone attacking each other for supposedly questionable choices of words. Grumbler's influence is growing
:lmfao:  No.  You need to look up the term "honor killing."  it has an actual meaning that isn't dependent on your perception of " questionable choices of words."  Once you understand what the words mean, you will understand the discussion.

I'd also argue that in this instance terminology is really important as article by tacking on that last few bits with honor killings seems to be suggesting this is some sort of endemic thing to Muslim culture instead of simply focusing on how this was a crazed killer.  Can easily feed into the whole broken/evil Muslim culture narrative when this really doesn't seem to be an example of that at all.
"I've never been quite sure what the point of a eunuch is, if truth be told. It seems to me they're only men with the useful bits cut off."
I drank because I wanted to drown my sorrows, but now the damned things have learned to swim.

DGuller

Sometimes a killing spree is just a killing spree.  :rolleyes:

PDH

Quote from: DGuller on April 07, 2015, 12:08:13 PM
Sometimes a killing spree is just a killing spree.  :rolleyes:

The dying utterance of General Custer.
I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.
-Umberto Eco

-------
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Malthus

Quote from: PDH on April 07, 2015, 05:27:58 PM
Quote from: DGuller on April 07, 2015, 12:08:13 PM
Sometimes a killing spree is just a killing spree.  :rolleyes:

The dying utterance of General Custer.

Or perhaps "Freud's lesser-known aphorism".  ;)
The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane—Marcus Aurelius

Ed Anger

Quote from: PDH on April 07, 2015, 05:27:58 PM
Quote from: DGuller on April 07, 2015, 12:08:13 PM
Sometimes a killing spree is just a killing spree.  :rolleyes:

The dying utterance of General Custer.

Thanks General Steele.
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