Pakistani man kills 14 over wedding objections.

[jimmy olsen]

Dude had already killed his whole family and only the uncle of the bride objected?

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/gul-ahmad-saeed-accused-killing-14-pakistan-over-marriage-wrangle-n336381

Gul Ahmad Saeed Accused of Killing 14 in Pakistan Over Marriage Wrangle
COLLAPSE STORY
ISLAMABAD, Pakistan — A Pakistani man is suspected of killing his fiancé and nine of her relatives after the woman's family appeared reluctant to give her permission to marry, police said on Monday.

The 25-year-old suspect, who police identified as Gul Ahmad Saeed, had been on the run since murdering his parents, brother and sister-in-law earlier this year when they obstructed the marriage.

On Sunday, he returned to his town in northwest Pakistan and, with some accomplices, shot dead his fiance, her parents and seven of her siblings, after an uncle had raised his opposition to the marriage, police said.

"The uncle was being very indecisive about the wedding which infuriated Gul Ahmad," said police officer Mohammad Jamil.

Police were searching for the suspects but they were believed to have fled into the semi-autonomous Pashtun tribal area along the Afghan border where government authorities hold little sway and police are not legally permitted to go.

The killings took place in a deeply conservative area where women there are often discouraged from going to school and have little choice when it comes to marriage. Pakistani women are often killed by men who feel their honor has been offended in some way.

The Human Rights Commission of Pakistan reported that 869 women were murdered in so-called honor killings in 2013, the last year for which data is available.

[Darth Wagtaros]

It was the only logical thing to do.

[DGuller]

I guess the father-in-law-not-to-be in hindsight made the right decision.  The guy was a murderous loon.

[Berkut]

We must understand and be tolerant of non-western culture. Just because it is difference doesn't mean it is wrong.

[Grallon]

Brown peeple being brow peeple - film at 11.

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And when I write 'brown people' I'm obviously not referring to their skin color, just to clarify before the usual idiots come hollering about 'mah racism!'

This isn't about race, it never was, for me anyway; it's about culture and how some are not 'aligned' with the modern world.  Yet we keep treating them as equals because the currently prevailing dogma commands us to do so; talk about shooting oneself in the face!



G.

[jimmy olsen]

Brown peeple being brow peeple - film at 11.

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And when I write 'brown people' I'm obviously not referring to their skin color, just to clarify before the usual idiots come hollering about 'mah racism!'

Then don't write brown people, that's a solution simple enough for even you to understand.

[Grallon]

Then don't write brown people, that's a solution simple enough for even you to understand.

Timmy, do read the whole post before you knee-jerk will ya?



G.

[The Brain]

Brown peeple being brow peeple - film at 11.

-----

And when I write 'brown people' I'm obviously not referring to their skin color, just to clarify before the usual idiots come hollering about 'mah racism!'

This isn't about race, it never was, for me anyway; it's about culture and how some are not 'aligned' with the modern world.  Yet we keep treating them as equals because the currently prevailing dogma commands us to do so; talk about shooting oneself in the face!



G.

Low or high?

[garbon]

We must understand and be tolerant of non-western culture. Just because it is difference doesn't mean it is wrong.

It seems kind of odd that this article ends with a mention on honor killings as I don't think being someone who killed one's own family and then later in the year decides to kill one's fiancee and her family has anything to do with honor killings.

[Martinus]

We must understand and be tolerant of non-western culture. Just because it is difference doesn't mean it is wrong.

It seems kind of odd that this article ends with a mention on honor killings as I don't think being someone who killed one's own family and then later in the year decides to kill one's fiancee and her family has anything to do with honor killings.

Why not? These are exactly the usual targets of honour killings.

[garbon]

We must understand and be tolerant of non-western culture. Just because it is difference doesn't mean it is wrong.

It seems kind of odd that this article ends with a mention on honor killings as I don't think being someone who killed one's own family and then later in the year decides to kill one's fiancee and her family has anything to do with honor killings.

Why not? These are exactly the usual targets of honour killings.

Everyone connected to a killer are the usual targets?

As far as I knew, the term is usually used to discuss males killing females who they think have brought shame to their families (like being raped, refusing to go along with an arranged marriage). I don't think that usually extends to killing everyone who may have slighted a would-be groom.  Generally there also seems to be a suggestion that said killings are either spawned or legitimized by the culture of the killer and in this case it doesn't seem like there is anyone thinking he did the right think (though maybe there and the blurb just didn't get a chance to report on them).

[Martinus]

Not really. It is a much broader term.

[garbon]

Insightful. Broad enough that it is completely useless to use then - apart from I guess blaming one culture for its crazed killers while allowing Western culture a free pass?

[Martinus]

Well, to elaborate honor killings are used quite commonly to describe murder of a family member for a perceived slight against the honour of the killer and/or his family. I have seen it used frequently, for example, to describe the murder of gay or transgendered children of both sexes in countries like Turkey. There is also a component of cultural - if not acceptance then at least tolerance/turning the blind eye to this type of murder.

Now, the killing in question is probably more remotely related to it but it is not completely unrelated - the killer is clearly defending his honour, his targets are family members, so the only component that is unclear is whether this type of murder is seen as culturally acceptable at least by part of the culture he lives in. It appears the author of the article is - either rightly or wrongly - implying it is. Do you have any evidence to refute that claim?

[garbon]

Well, to elaborate honor killings are used quite commonly to describe murder of a family member for a perceived slight against the honour of the killer and/or his family. I have seen it used frequently, for example, to describe the murder of gay or transgendered children of both sexes in countries like Turkey. There is also a component of cultural - if not acceptance then at least tolerance/turning the blind eye to this type of murder.

Do we see that with these murders? He seems to be have been on the run since he killed his family and is now doubly on the run. What evidence do we have with tolerance/turning a blind eye to this case?

How, if this is the definition, do we use that to differentiate a crime like this and crimes that are committed as revenge for perceived slights in other cultures?

Now, the killing in question is probably more remotely related to it but it is not completely unrelated - the killer is clearly defending his honour, his targets are family members, so the only component that is unclear is whether this type of murder is seen as culturally acceptable at least by part of the culture he lives in. It appears the author of the article is - either rightly or wrongly - implying it is. Do you have any evidence to refute that claim?

All I see is that the author of this article tacked on a bit about what honor killings are at the end of the blurb about a killer who is on the run. I think it makes sense to question whether those items deserved to be linked.