The Cops Can Pretty Much Always Search Your Smartphone in Canada

[Berkut]

Yeah, I've been through border control so many times now it isn't funny.

You never know what you are going to get - sometimes it is entirely cursory, most times in fact, sometimes not so much. I don't see any problem with any of that.

It is not "unreasonable" to expect that when crossing a border you will be searched to make sure you are not bringing in anything you should not.

It is nice when  they are polite, but I don't think it is their job to be polite - if they get a little short, then that is your cue to provide whatever it is they are looking for. I don't think the interaction Dorsey described was a at all over any line.

However, the idea that border patrol should be allowed to search your phone without some kind of probably cause is clearly bullshit - there is no way you are smuggling crack into the country on your cellphone.

[Barrister]

However, the idea that border patrol should be allowed to search your phone without some kind of probably cause is clearly bullshit - there is no way you are smuggling crack into the country on your cellphone.

They're not looking for crack.

They're looking for kiddie porn.  And they find it in surprising quantities.

[alfred russel]

I dunno.  I always think back to a police interview I remember watching.  Crack had been found in the back seat of the car, and police were interviewing the occupants about it.

First officer starts much as you guys suggest - very polite and non-assertive.  And this lady spent a good hour rambling about nothing at all.

Then a second officer comes in.  He was very professional, but very direct.  He didn't put up with bullshit and said so.  Lady admitted everything (or at least enough for a conviction) within 10 minutes.

Law enforcement officers should always be respectful, but they are not their for a social visit.  Their questions should be answered directly, and they will often need to be quite blunt in their responses.

If they found crack in my backpack that might be an analogous story.

The odds I'm a spy or a terrorist are exceedingly small, and even if I was, asking me what I was doing while out of the country a week seems quite unlikely to detect that.

I'm not certain what else they are asking about. If I was on a crime spree in a foreign country, that typically isn't a crime here.

[garbon]

It is nice when  they are polite, but I don't think it is their job to be polite - if they get a little short, then that is your cue to provide whatever it is they are looking for. I don't think the interaction Dorsey described was a at all over any line.

I don't know. Other than maybe the DMV (and sometimes post office) who else to we allow us to treat us in a rude fashion?

[crazy canuck]

However, the idea that border patrol should be allowed to search your phone without some kind of probably cause is clearly bullshit - there is no way you are smuggling crack into the country on your cellphone.

I am not sure what the difference is between checking luggage to see if a person is carrying child pornography and checking their electronic devices.  Border agents finding child porn which then provides evidence that can help the police find the producers of the material and perhaps assisting in the rescue the children involved is not "clearly bullshit".

[Barrister]

I dunno.  I always think back to a police interview I remember watching.  Crack had been found in the back seat of the car, and police were interviewing the occupants about it.

First officer starts much as you guys suggest - very polite and non-assertive.  And this lady spent a good hour rambling about nothing at all.

Then a second officer comes in.  He was very professional, but very direct.  He didn't put up with bullshit and said so.  Lady admitted everything (or at least enough for a conviction) within 10 minutes.

Law enforcement officers should always be respectful, but they are not their for a social visit.  Their questions should be answered directly, and they will often need to be quite blunt in their responses.

If they found crack in my backpack that might be an analogous story.

The odds I'm a spy or a terrorist are exceedingly small, and even if I was, asking me what I was doing while out of the country a week seems quite unlikely to detect that.

I'm not certain what else they are asking about. If I was on a crime spree in a foreign country, that typically isn't a crime here.

The point was that direct and to the point can often be more effective than polite and non-confrontational.

The point of asking those kinds of questions is to determine whether or not to send you to secondary screening.  There's not necessarily any right or wrong answers - it's more in how you answer them.

[Berkut]

I dunno.  I always think back to a police interview I remember watching.  Crack had been found in the back seat of the car, and police were interviewing the occupants about it.

First officer starts much as you guys suggest - very polite and non-assertive.  And this lady spent a good hour rambling about nothing at all.

Then a second officer comes in.  He was very professional, but very direct.  He didn't put up with bullshit and said so.  Lady admitted everything (or at least enough for a conviction) within 10 minutes.

Law enforcement officers should always be respectful, but they are not their for a social visit.  Their questions should be answered directly, and they will often need to be quite blunt in their responses.

If they found crack in my backpack that might be an analogous story.

The odds I'm a spy or a terrorist are exceedingly small, and even if I was, asking me what I was doing while out of the country a week seems quite unlikely to detect that.

I'm not certain what else they are asking about. If I was on a crime spree in a foreign country, that typically isn't a crime here.

They are asking you those questions because they want to see if you get nervous or flub the answers. This is completely normal "casual" interrogation techniques. The goal isn't to capture every secret agent, it is to just do some very basic spot checking to see if people can answer simple question as needed about what they are doing and where they are going.

[Berkut]

However, the idea that border patrol should be allowed to search your phone without some kind of probably cause is clearly bullshit - there is no way you are smuggling crack into the country on your cellphone.

I am not sure what the difference is between checking luggage to see if a person is carrying child pornography and checking their electronic devices.  Border agents finding child porn which then provides evidence that can help the police find the producers of the material and perhaps assisting in the rescue the children involved is not "clearly bullshit".

That logic, however, applies to the cops checking anyone's electronic devices at any point and at any time. It has nothing to do with crossing a border.

"Child porn" sounds like a nicely emotive and convenient excuse to allow the police to go snooping. JUST THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!! ZOMG!!!!

[garbon]

They are asking you those questions because they want to see if you get nervous or flub the answers. This is completely normal "casual" interrogation techniques. The goal isn't to capture every secret agent, it is to just do some very basic spot checking to see if people can answer simple question as needed about what they are doing and where they are going.

How effective are these questions? I certainly know anecdotally of would-be criminals who have gotten caught but it seems like you would have a wonky signal-noise ratio. I've gotten flustered at customs and I haven't ever had anything to hide.

[crazy canuck]

It is nice when  they are polite, but I don't think it is their job to be polite - if they get a little short, then that is your cue to provide whatever it is they are looking for. I don't think the interaction Dorsey described was a at all over any line.

I don't know. Other than maybe the DMV (and sometimes post office) who else to we allow us to treat us in a rude fashion?

Nobody else is given the responsibility of protecting a border crossing.  If a little rudeness occurs now and then that is a pretty small price to pay.

[Berkut]

They are asking you those questions because they want to see if you get nervous or flub the answers. This is completely normal "casual" interrogation techniques. The goal isn't to capture every secret agent, it is to just do some very basic spot checking to see if people can answer simple question as needed about what they are doing and where they are going.

How effective are these questions? I certainly know anecdotally of would-be criminals who have gotten caught but it seems like you would have a wonky signal-noise ratio. I've gotten flustered at customs and I haven't ever had anything to hide.

I don't know, but I am happy to defer to the people who are trained and professionals at doing the job, barring some reason to suspect otherwise.

[Berkut]

It is nice when  they are polite, but I don't think it is their job to be polite - if they get a little short, then that is your cue to provide whatever it is they are looking for. I don't think the interaction Dorsey described was a at all over any line.

I don't know. Other than maybe the DMV (and sometimes post office) who else to we allow us to treat us in a rude fashion?

Nobody else is given the responsibility of protecting a border crossing.  If a little rudeness occurs now and then that is a pretty small price to pay.

Especially when we define "rudeness" as loosely as the story in question.

That wasn't all that rude at all, to be honest.

[garbon]

It is nice when  they are polite, but I don't think it is their job to be polite - if they get a little short, then that is your cue to provide whatever it is they are looking for. I don't think the interaction Dorsey described was a at all over any line.

I don't know. Other than maybe the DMV (and sometimes post office) who else to we allow us to treat us in a rude fashion?

Nobody else is given the responsibility of protecting a border crossing.  If a little rudeness occurs now and then that is a pretty small price to pay.

Sounds like an unnecessary one though. A little civility can go a long way and wouldn't hamper their effectiveness.

Actually, it is the sort of thing that I've seen a lot of with rude government employees. Maybe part of the issue is that while they are working there on a daily basis (and thus know the full drill and what they need), for many of us, interacting with them is on an occasional basis. Many of the blunder on our part are because we don't really know the full process and the role we are expected to play (thinking about how rude many of the employees were when I went to have my biometric data taken).

[garbon]

It is nice when  they are polite, but I don't think it is their job to be polite - if they get a little short, then that is your cue to provide whatever it is they are looking for. I don't think the interaction Dorsey described was a at all over any line.

I don't know. Other than maybe the DMV (and sometimes post office) who else to we allow us to treat us in a rude fashion?

Nobody else is given the responsibility of protecting a border crossing.  If a little rudeness occurs now and then that is a pretty small price to pay.

Especially when we define "rudeness" as loosely as the story in question.

That wasn't all that rude at all, to be honest.

I generally consider threats to be rude. YMMV, of course.

[crazy canuck]

They are asking you those questions because they want to see if you get nervous or flub the answers. This is completely normal "casual" interrogation techniques. The goal isn't to capture every secret agent, it is to just do some very basic spot checking to see if people can answer simple question as needed about what they are doing and where they are going.

How effective are these questions? I certainly know anecdotally of would-be criminals who have gotten caught but it seems like you would have a wonky signal-noise ratio. I've gotten flustered at customs and I haven't ever had anything to hide.

You pass through a border infrequently.  The border agent sees hundreds of people in a day at a busy port of entry.  It doesn't take long to gain the ability to pick out someone who is acting odd compared to the rest of the people on that flight or crossing at that time.  The Israelis trust this sort of judgment more than technology designed to detect threats.