The Cops Can Pretty Much Always Search Your Smartphone in Canada

[Capetan Mihali]

I was just reminiscing about the time 2 friends and I got shook down really hard by Canadian border guards trying to go on a little jaunt through on Ontario in a very battered Oldsmobile filled with clothes and art supplies (long story). 

One friend was gay and not quite out to the world, the other was wrestling with questions of faith, and I've always just been pursued by a bad conscience.  The combined effect was that we came off so nervous, the officers really couldn't believe we weren't hiding anything, and tore the car apart for at least an hour. 

I guess we all just felt like we didn't really deserve to be let into Canada, for our general moral failings rather than anything in particular.

[Zanza]

The cell phone itself is a good.

And at law if you had a padlock on your goods you'd be obliged to open it for the border guards, so it's the same for your cellphone.

No, it's not the same. If they ask you to take the battery out of your phone, that would be the same. To show them your correspondence, photos and whatever other information you have stored on your phone is not. Or is there a customs fee on information in Canada? Because if there isn't (as I assume), they don't have a plausible reason to search your phone. If you bought a new phone abroad, you might have to pay customs. If you received an e-mail abroad on your Canada-bought phone, that's none of their business.

[The Brain]

I was just reminiscing about the time 2 friends and I got shook down really hard by Canadian border guards trying to go on a little jaunt through on Ontario in a very battered Oldsmobile filled with clothes and art supplies (long story). 

One friend was gay and not quite out to the world, the other was wrestling with questions of faith, and I've always just been pursued by a bad conscience.  The combined effect was that we came off so nervous, the officers really couldn't believe we weren't hiding anything, and tore the car apart for at least an hour. 

I guess we all just felt like we didn't really deserve to be let into Canada, for our general moral failings rather than anything in particular.

And instead Canada entered you.

[Barrister]

By the way, your luggage at the airport would be checked by a different agency in Germany, namely the Federal Customs Agency. They have only limited police powers and are not considered a police force. There are actually two different kind of borders: for persons and goods. You'll notice when you arrive at just about any international airport. You'll always be checked for your travel documents (persons border), but your luggage is typically only checked in your final destination (goods border). The US is rather the exception here again as they make you pick up your luggage, haul it past a disinterested customs officer and re-check it afterwards.

I would be shocked is the Federal Customs Agency didn't have the right to search your goods for any reason.

[Zanza]

I would be shocked is the Federal Customs Agency didn't have the right to search your goods for any reason.

German government agents may never do anything for "any reason". We have rule by law. Government agents may only ever act for the very specific reasons stated in laws. And even then only if the action is proportional to what they are supposed to do.

[Capetan Mihali]

And instead Canada entered you.

Trust me when I tell you: it's a big country.

[crazy canuck]

By the way, your luggage at the airport would be checked by a different agency in Germany, namely the Federal Customs Agency. They have only limited police powers and are not considered a police force. There are actually two different kind of borders: for persons and goods. You'll notice when you arrive at just about any international airport. You'll always be checked for your travel documents (persons border), but your luggage is typically only checked in your final destination (goods border). The US is rather the exception here again as they make you pick up your luggage, haul it past a disinterested customs officer and re-check it afterwards.

Ah, that is important.  So essentially in Germany the Federal Police are given the power of passport control but there is a separate body to deal with customs issues.  In North America (and I think the UK) passport control and customs are dealt with by the same officer.

[Barrister]

I would be shocked is the Federal Customs Agency didn't have the right to search your goods for any reason.

German government agents may never do anything for "any reason". We have rule by law. Government agents may only ever act for the very specific reasons stated in laws. And even then only if the action is proportional to what they are supposed to do.

A quibble, but fair enough.

I would be shocked is the Federal Customs Agency didn't have the right to search your goods randomly or on mere suspicion.

[Zanza]

Ah, that is important.  So essentially in Germany the Federal Police are given the power of passport control but there is a separate body to deal with customs issues.  In North America (and I think the UK) passport control and customs are dealt with by the same officer.

Haven't been in Canada for ages, but in the US it is definitely dine by different persons. Passport control happens before you even get your bags. Considering the multitude of law enforcement agencies in the US, I would be surprised to learn that the same agency does both. 

[crazy canuck]

Ah, that is important.  So essentially in Germany the Federal Police are given the power of passport control but there is a separate body to deal with customs issues.  In North America (and I think the UK) passport control and customs are dealt with by the same officer.

Haven't been in Canada for ages, but in the US it is definitely dine by different persons. Passport control happens before you even get your bags. Considering the multitude of law enforcement agencies in the US, I would be surprised to learn that the same agency does both.

No, what is happening is that you go to an officer who checks your passport and asks you questions about your trip.  It is that person who initially decides whether you should be sent for a secondary search and your declaration card is coded accordingly.  The people who conduct the secondary search are the same type of officer who you met at the first passport check point (during shift they will change places).  When you turn in your coded card at the point of leaving the customs area and after you have collected your bags, you may also be selected for a secondary search regardless of how the first officer coded your card.  For example if you are a returning resident and you noted on your declaration card that you bought nothing while away but you have numerous bulging bags, you will probably selected for a secondary inspection.  But the point is all of that is being done by one group of officers -  US border guards.

[grumbler]

I find it amusing that you of all people are puzzled by quibbling over a word being misused slightly

*Yawn*  Okay, you got your ad hom of the hour out of the way.  Hope you feel better.

In my understanding, the exigencies of border control and policing are different so carrying expectations from one area to the other muddies the water.

That said, as per Zanza apparently there are places where there is no distinction between the two which is interesting.

So, the answer to my question is "in no significant way does it matter."  That's what I figured.

[crazy canuck]

So, the answer to my question is "in no significant way does it matter."  That's what I figured.

Since a "cop" and a border guard have very different powers to search and question it does make a difference but I suppose only if one pays attention to the facts.

[DGuller]

Dorsey/AR/DGuller/Ted Bundy strikes me as the type that can flip a cop's "asshole" switch pretty fucking quickly.

I'm actually pretty submissive to authority figures when not posting on the Internet.

[grumbler]

So, the answer to my question is "in no significant way does it matter."  That's what I figured.

Since a "cop" and a border guard have very different powers to search and question it does make a difference but I suppose only if one pays attention to the facts.

Since neither of them are doing either thing on the board, the nits or errors over terminology here don't change their powers at all. 

[Martinus]

By the way, I love the fact that this is the cop story that is creating controversy on Languish this week.

Why are you not all up in arms about the Fergusson report?