Why Our Children Don’t Think There Are Moral Facts

[Siege]

Fuck common core.
Now I understand why it sucks.

[derspiess]

Fuck common core.
Now I understand why it sucks.

Wait til you see how it teaches math.  Do simple arithmetic to quickly solve a problem?  Oh, no.  You use number lines and other time-wasting bullshit.

[Valmy]

Fuck common core.
Now I understand why it sucks.

This distinction has been around for far longer than common core.  I do not recall having any problem telling right from wrong because I understood "fact" from "opinion".

Wait til you see how it teaches math.  Do simple arithmetic to quickly solve a problem?  Oh, no.  You use number lines and other time-wasting bullshit.

What the hell is wrong with number lines?  Maybe I don't understand the context but the entire point of those is to teach simple arithmetic.  Using simple arithmetic to learn simple arithmetic seems like a non-starter.

[derspiess]

What the hell is wrong with number lines?  Maybe I don't understand the context but the entire point of those is to teach simple arithmetic.  Using simple arithmetic to learn simple arithmetic seems like a non-starter.

They're a hindrance, at least for my kid.  The "old" way is easier and quicker for him.

[Valmy]

They're a hindrance, at least for my kid.  The "old" way is easier and quicker for him.

What was the old way?

[Berkut]

Fuck common core.
Now I understand why it sucks.

This distinction has been around for far longer than common core.  I do not recall having any problem telling right from wrong because I understood "fact" from "opinion".

Wait til you see how it teaches math.  Do simple arithmetic to quickly solve a problem?  Oh, no.  You use number lines and other time-wasting bullshit.

What the hell is wrong with number lines?  Maybe I don't understand the context but the entire point of those is to teach simple arithmetic.  Using simple arithmetic to learn simple arithmetic seems like a non-starter.

We went through this all with my daughter. I see both sides, really.

Some of this common core stuff is trying to teach that there is more to math than understanding the buts and bolts of how to solve a problem. That knowing how to add 5 and 8 to get 13 is great, but understanding that there is more to it than simply understanding the steps to arrive at the answer.

My daughter is a perfect example. You could teach her how to do basic multiplication, for example. And she could handle "What is 6 times 5"? and get "30" - she knew how to apply the process to get the answer (5+5+5+5+5+5 = 30, or just memorize).

However, it never clicked to her what that really meant, and how math relates. In other words, you could show her a flash card for 5x6=?, and she could work out the answer. Then you could *immediately* show her another flash card with 30/5 = ?, and she could work out that answer as well. *But it would never occur to her that if she knew the answer to the first, she new the answer to the second*. Because it just didn't click with her that the questions have anything to do with one another, even if she could go through the algorithm to figure out the answer to both. She has never really grasped the fundamental underneath the algorithms.

Common core math is an effort to not just teach kids how to answer problems, but to teach them how math works, how it all works together. It totally failed with my daughter, but my son picked it up immediately, and "grokked" math intuitively. Needless to say, he is vastly more successful at math than his sister. I don't know if common core can really work to teach someone like my daughter those concepts - it was incredibly frustrating for her.

[derspiess]

They're a hindrance, at least for my kid.  The "old" way is easier and quicker for him.

What was the old way?

The simpler method of simply doing the arithmetic.

Example:

[Berkut]

What the hell is wrong with number lines?  Maybe I don't understand the context but the entire point of those is to teach simple arithmetic.  Using simple arithmetic to learn simple arithmetic seems like a non-starter.

They're a hindrance, at least for my kid.  The "old" way is easier and quicker for him.

The problem with the "old way" is that it is really just teaching someone a recipe for how to solve a particular problem that is presented in a particular format. If you then give them a similar problem but in a different format, they don't have the tools to understand how to solve that problem, because they don't necessarily recognize the underlying similarities.

Personally, I always "got" math, and was able to understand those underlying principles without much help, while I learned that "simple" and traditional methods for solving particular problems. So common core would probably have been easy for me, since I was always good at understanding those principles pretty intuitively. Common core, I think, is the effort to come up with a way of getting not just exceptional students to understand those principles, but average students as well. That adds some additional complexity to otherwise simple forumlaic problems, but the idea is that it it worth it in the long run.

I think where it turns into a real problem is with below average math students, who really are going to struggle with the simple algorithms anyway, and the effort to teach them that additional layer of complexity is too much.

[CountDeMoney]

Wait til you see how it teaches math.  Do simple arithmetic to quickly solve a problem?  Oh, no.  You use number lines and other time-wasting bullshit.

I thought your kid went to private school, and therefore not subject to such medievalisms.

[The Brain]

I remember kindergarten staff explaining mulitiplication to me using a plaid tablecloth. Worked fine.

[Valmy]

The method of doing arithmetic is doing arithmetic?  Fascinating.

The number line method IS EXACTLY THE SAME as doing the arithmetic.  You subtract 300, then 10, then 6.  Boom.  What is the difference?  But you get to see it graphically which can be useful.

So color me baffled by the dumbass Engineer.  Besides arithmetic is jack all to do with upper level mathematics.  I took many hours in upper level electro-magnetism and large and small scale electric circuits but I doubt I could teach electricians how to do remedial wiring.

[frunk]

The problem in education is the presumption that there is "one right way".  Different methods work better for different students, and it's best if the teacher has more tools at their disposal rather than straight jacketing into "this is the best method to explain math to kids". 

[Valmy]

The problem in education is the presumption that there is "one right way".  Different methods work better for different students, and it's best if the teacher has more tools at their disposal rather than straight jacketing into "this is the best method to explain math to kids". 

Thinking about it the best way would be to teach multiple methods and just let the kids pick the one they want to use.  Having a HW assignment making you explain how to use a method right is a bit annoying.  So I guess I can see the annoying Engineer parent's point on that.

[derspiess]

I thought your kid went to private school, and therefore not subject to such medievalisms.

He did for pre-school and Kindergarten.  We have a pretty good school district so we put him in public school this year for first grade.  Besides, all the private schools nearby are Catholic

Oddly enough, I saw more common core BS in his Kindergarten class than I'm seeing this year.

[Maximus]

The problem in education is the presumption that there is "one right way".  Different methods work better for different students, and it's best if the teacher has more tools at their disposal rather than straight jacketing into "this is the best method to explain math to kids".

This