Two States Will Revoke Your Driver’s License If You Can’t Pay Back Student Loans

[Admiral Yi]

Either way, I'm curious how this involves the states whatsoever: the loan money is either private or (in almost every circumstance now) federal.  Not state.

My understanding is if a given educational institution (i.e., diesel automotive tech) builds up too high a default rate, its students are no longer eligible for student loans.  So there's a possible nexus.  Or lexus.

[Ideologue]

Ah, fair enough.

[Martinus]

This seems bonkers. What's next? Debtor prisons?

[Ideologue]

Debtor's prisons would probably cost money.  The great thing about this is that it punishes people without requiring the state to spend anything.  They might as well just punch student loan defaulters in the stomach, at least then they could possibly still acquire work.

[Martinus]

It's just insane. Pure animus.

[Martinus]

I don't know what a forbearance is.

A forebearance means you don't have to pay for the time being.  You don't go into default while in forebearance.  You don't get threatening letters and you don't get your wages garnished.  Interest keeps accruing.

Wouldn't entering negotiations to repay a loan assume you will be able to repay it at some point in future? If so, what's the point of doing this if you know that's not gonna happen either? It looks like a pure annoyance.

Besides, as a small government Republican, wouldn't an idea of a state (i) creating useless bureaucratic requirement, (ii) to enforce private debt, (iii) and taking away unrelated rights of the people if they fail to comply with the bureaucratic requirement be against your beliefs?

[Admiral Yi]

Wouldn't entering negotiations to repay a loan assume you will be able to repay it at some point in future? If so, what's the point of doing this if you know that's not gonna happen either? It looks like a pure annoyance.

Besides, as a small government Republican, wouldn't an idea of a state (i) creating useless bureaucratic requirement, (ii) to enforce private debt, (iii) and taking away unrelated rights of the people if they fail to comply with the bureaucratic requirement be against your beliefs?

As Ide has already pointed out, student debt is overwhelmingly publicly provided.

As to the first part, I'm not clear on what you're asking.  The borrower knows he'll never be in a position to be able to pay a penny?  The borrower knows he never *wants* to pay back a penny?

[Martinus]

The fact that you owe a debt to a government body does not make it automatically a public due. Generally, only the likes of tarrifs, taxes and public fees are public dues. Where the state, acting through its bodies, enters into private transactions with individuals, the debts under such transactions are private debts.

If you buy a plot of land from the government and fail to pay the price, it is still a private debt and is enforced in the same way as any other private debt (i.e. through courts). Ancient Romans already understood this division and differentiated between what they called "imperium" (i.e. the state acting as a sovereign) and "dominium" (i.e. the state acting as a proprietor). It is considered a gross violation of due process  and the rule of law if the state uses its imperium to protect its dominium.

[Admiral Yi]

Not here it isn't.

[Martinus]

Not here it isn't.

Can you link me to some evidence supporting this statement?

[Admiral Yi]

Do a google search on student loan garnishment.

[Darth Wagtaros]

Debtor's prisons would probably cost money.  The great thing about this is that it punishes people without requiring the state to spend anything.  They might as well just punch student loan defaulters in the stomach, at least then they could possibly still acquire work.

Communities have come to depend on prisons for work the same way they used to depend on military bases.  More prisons = more economic prosperity.

[CountDeMoney]

The fact that you owe a debt to a government body does not make it automatically a public due. Generally, only the likes of tarrifs, taxes and public fees are public dues. Where the state, acting through its bodies, enters into private transactions with individuals, the debts under such transactions are private debts.

If you buy a plot of land from the government and fail to pay the price, it is still a private debt and is enforced in the same way as any other private debt (i.e. through courts). Ancient Romans already understood this division and differentiated between what they called "imperium" (i.e. the state acting as a sovereign) and "dominium" (i.e. the state acting as a proprietor). It is considered a gross violation of due process  and the rule of law if the state uses its imperium to protect its dominium.

So what happens in Poland if you owe the state money?

[derspiess]

So what happens in Poland if you owe the state money?

They garnish your pierogies.  GET IT?

[Kleves]

Lots of states already suspend people's licenses for failing to pay tickets or child support. It makes some sense to treat non-repayment of state loans similarly. Of course, in any of these situations, suspension of a license can often cause a vicious circle of increasing fines (and often jail time - Washington at least, driving with a suspended license is a criminal offense) and decreasing ability to pay, which means that there's very little chance some people will ever be able to get their licenses back.