Why are we criminalizing childhood independence?

[Monoriu]

On one hand we encourage the wives to find work, and to have children at the same time.

On the other hand we criminalise leaving children at home without adult supervision. 

This just doesn't make sense to me. 

[Capetan Mihali]

Well, daycare is usually considered the preferred alternative.

[Monoriu]

Well, daycare is usually considered the preferred alternative.

That's not financially feasible for most working class couples.  Also, in a society where people are increasingly expected to work until 8 or 9 in the evening, the service hours of most daycare services are insufficient. 

[Razgovory]

Like seeing a bunch of high school kids sitting at a table, nobody's talking, because they are texting.

Little shits probably didn't even check their voice mail, either.  Civilization-destroying little shits.

Don't get me started with schools and their "Everybody's a winner attitude bullshit." Dealing with an issue now with my 9 y/o and a bully. We handled bully's differently back in our day. I'm letting the Hippies try to deal with it, but my patience is wearing thin.

Let me guess, you beat up the other kid who was bullying you with his superior penmanship.

[Capetan Mihali]

Well, daycare is usually considered the preferred alternative.

That's not financially feasible for most working class couples.  Also, in a society where people are increasingly expected to work until 8 or 9 in the evening, the service hours of most daycare services are insufficient.

You're telling me... I hear about this dilemma from my clients all the time, so I'm well aware of the problems posed.

Just giving the dominant social expectation, versus leaving them alone.  And in fairness, there are subsidized day cares and subsidized pre-school, as well as kindergarten and elementary school once the kids hit 6 r so.

[11B4V]

Like seeing a bunch of high school kids sitting at a table, nobody's talking, because they are texting.

Little shits probably didn't even check their voice mail, either.  Civilization-destroying little shits.

Don't get me started with schools and their "Everybody's a winner attitude bullshit." Dealing with an issue now with my 9 y/o and a bully. We handled bully's differently back in our day. I'm letting the Hippies try to deal with it, but my patience is wearing thin.

Let me guess, you beat up the other kid who was bullying you with his superior penmanship.

Don't even know what your saying.

[Monoriu]

Well, daycare is usually considered the preferred alternative.

That's not financially feasible for most working class couples.  Also, in a society where people are increasingly expected to work until 8 or 9 in the evening, the service hours of most daycare services are insufficient.

You're telling me... I hear about this dilemma from my clients all the time, so I'm well aware of the problems posed.

Just giving the dominant social expectation, versus leaving them alone.  And in fairness, there are subsidized day cares and subsidized pre-school, as well as kindergarten and elementary school once the kids hit 6 r so.

I hear that the most common solution is grandparents.  That's assuming you have good relations with them. 

[11B4V]

Well, daycare is usually considered the preferred alternative.

That's not financially feasible for most working class couples.  Also, in a society where people are increasingly expected to work until 8 or 9 in the evening, the service hours of most daycare services are insufficient.

You're telling me... I hear about this dilemma from my clients all the time, so I'm well aware of the problems posed.

Just giving the dominant social expectation, versus leaving them alone.  And in fairness, there are subsidized day cares and subsidized pre-school, as well as kindergarten and elementary school once the kids hit 6 r so.

I hear that the most common solution is grandparents.  That's assuming you have good relations with them.

Yea lets dump the kids with the grand parents for free.

[HVC]

I blame cnn and the like. 24 hours of scary news will give you a "think of the children" mentality.

[jimmy olsen]

How children lost the right to roam in four generations

By DAVID DERBYSHIRE

Last updated at 01:03 15 June 2007

When George Thomas was eight he walked everywhere.

It was 1926 and his parents were unable to afford the fare for a tram, let alone the cost of a bike and he regularly walked six miles to his favourite fishing haunt without adult supervision.

Fast forward to 2007 and Mr Thomas's eight-year-old great-grandson Edward enjoys none of that freedom.

He is driven the few minutes to school, is taken by car to a safe place to ride his bike and can roam no more than 300 yards from home.

Even if he wanted to play outdoors, none of his friends strays from their home or garden unsupervised.

The contrast between Edward and George's childhoods is highlighted in a report which warns that the mental health of 21st-century children is at risk because they are missing out on the exposure to the natural world enjoyed by past generations.

The report says the change in attitudes is reflected in four generations of the Thomas family in Sheffield.

The oldest member, George, was allowed to roam for six miles from home unaccompanied when he was eight.

His home was tiny and crowded and he spent most of his time outside, playing games and making dens.

Mr Thomas, who went on to become a carpenter, has never lost some of the habits picked up as a child and, aged 88, is still a keen walker.

His son-in-law, Jack Hattersley, 63, was also given freedom to roam.

He was aged eight in 1950, and was allowed to walk for about one mile on his own to the local woods. Again, he walked to school and never travelled by car.

By 1979, when his daughter Vicky Grant was eight, there were signs that children's independence was being eroded.

"I was able to go out quite freely - I'd ride my bike around the estate, play with friends in the park and walk to the swimming pool and to school," said Mrs Grant, 36.

"There was a lot less traffic then - and families had only one car. People didn't make all these short journeys."

Today, her son Edward spends little time on his own outside his garden in their quiet suburban street. She takes him by car to school to ensure she gets to her part-time job as a medical librarian on time.

While he enjoys piano lessons, cubs, skiing lessons, regular holidays and the trampoline, slide and climbing frame in the garden, his mother is concerned he may be missing out.

She said: "He can go out in the crescent but he doesn't tend to go out because the other children don't. We put a bike in the car and go off to the country where we can all cycle together.

"It's not just about time. Traffic is an important consideration, as is the fear of abduction, but I'm not sure whether that's real or perceived."

She added: "Over four generations our family is poles apart in terms of affluence. But I'm not sure our lives are any richer."

The report's author, Dr William Bird, the health adviser to Natural England and the organiser of a conference on nature and health on Monday, believes children's long-term mental health is at risk.

He has compiled evidence that people are healthier and better adjusted if they get out into the countryside, parks or gardens.

Stress levels fall within minutes of seeing green spaces, he says. Even filling a home with flowers and plants can improve concentration and lower stress.

"If children haven't had contact with nature, they never develop a relationship with natural environment and they are unable to use it to cope with stress," he said.

"Studies have shown that people deprived of contact with nature were at greater risk of depression and anxiety. Children are getting less and less unsupervised time in the natural environment.

"They need time playing in the countryside, in parks and in gardens where they can explore, dig up the ground and build dens."

The report, published by Natural England and the Royal Society for the Protection of Birds, also found that children's behaviour and school work improve if their playground has grassy areas, ponds and trees.

It also found evidence that hospital patients need fewer painkillers after surgery if they have views of nature from their bed.

[mongers]

Tim, there's a item in the Ebola thread you might care to read.

[mongers]

I blame cnn and the like. 24 hours of scary news will give you a "think of the children" mentality.

I blame VSTOL parents.

[Martinus]

I blame parents. I mean, 30 years ago or so, if a child was moderately bullied while out on playground, the parent would tell the kid how to avoid it or fight back. Now they call the police. If a child was getting bad grades at school, the parent would blame the kid; now they blame the teacher. If a child got a bruise because of running through school corridors, the kid would get spanked. Now the school is being sued.

With the attitude from parents like this, the rest of the society is looking to avoid responsibility for a kid getting hurt by putting it back where it belongs - on the parents' shoulders. It's just that these were the parents who started to change the rules by blaming everybody else whenever something bad happened to their little shit, not the society.

[11B4V]

I blame parents. I mean, 30 years ago or so, if a child was moderately bullied while out on playground, the parent would tell the kid how to avoid it or fight back. Now they call the police. If a child was getting bad grades at school, the parent would blame the kid; now they blame the teacher. If a child got a bruise because of running through school corridors, the kid would get spanked. Now the school is being sued.

With the attitude from parents like this, the rest of the society is looking to avoid responsibility for a kid getting hurt by putting it back where it belongs - on the parents' shoulders. It's just that these were the parents who started to change the rules by blaming everybody else whenever something bad happened to their little shit, not the society.

I am with you on the first para. Not sure what you mean in the second.

I can not stand bullies and don't know really why. I hate those mother fuckers (bullies), fuck I hate those pieces of shit. I was never bullied or a bully in school, even though I was big for my age. Not katmai big, but tall wise.

[Martinus]

What I meant is that the society, as a whole, is making more rules for parents because otherwise other people may be liable if something happens to a child.

But parents started this trend by demanding higher standard of care for their own children from other people, such as teachers, policemen etc.