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Europe's Populist Left

Started by Sheilbh, January 04, 2015, 12:24:40 PM

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Martinus

#630
I simply adore this picture. The body language between Lagarde, Varoufakis and these two suited guys (the one on the left and the one in the back) is simply precious. It tells more than a thousand well crafted press releases.  :lol:

MadImmortalMan

Quote from: Martinus on February 11, 2015, 03:05:30 PM
I simply adore this picture. The body language between Lagarde, Varoufakis and these two suited guys (the one on the left and the one in the back) is simply precious. It tells more than a thousand well crafted press releases.  :lol:

I was thinking the same. It's probably the reason that particular shot was chosen.  :P
"Stability is destabilizing." --Hyman Minsky

"Complacency can be a self-denying prophecy."
"We have nothing to fear but lack of fear itself." --Larry Summers

Capetan Mihali

Guy on the left demonstrates the problem with Euro slim-cut suit hegemony -- it's not for everyone.
"The internet's completely over. [...] The internet's like MTV. At one time MTV was hip and suddenly it became outdated. Anyway, all these computers and digital gadgets are no good. They just fill your head with numbers and that can't be good for you."
-- Prince, 2010. (R.I.P.)

Martinus

Quote from: MadImmortalMan on February 11, 2015, 03:13:47 PM
Quote from: Martinus on February 11, 2015, 03:05:30 PM
I simply adore this picture. The body language between Lagarde, Varoufakis and these two suited guys (the one on the left and the one in the back) is simply precious. It tells more than a thousand well crafted press releases.  :lol:

I was thinking the same. It's probably the reason that particular shot was chosen.  :P

Varoufakis positively looks like a cat that has just eaten a canary. In fact swallowed it, whole, beak and feathers. :D

Martinus

Quote from: Capetan Mihali on February 11, 2015, 03:14:47 PM
Guy on the left demonstrates the problem with Euro slim-cut suit hegemony -- it's not for everyone.

Shush you. :P

Martinus

Speaking of which, it looks like Lagarde has got a bunch of Affinity points in Supremacy. :nerd:

Sheilbh

Greece has until Monday to decide if they want to extend the program. There are no other choices - latest news.
Let's bomb Russia!

MadImmortalMan

Well the initial market spike we got earlier is fading away.

It's gonna be like last time I guess. Rumor in the morning, Germany squashes it in the afternoon. Up, down, up, down. Rinse, repeat.
"Stability is destabilizing." --Hyman Minsky

"Complacency can be a self-denying prophecy."
"We have nothing to fear but lack of fear itself." --Larry Summers

Sheilbh

Yeah, ultimately any decision is above the pay grade of this Eurogroup meeting.
Let's bomb Russia!

The Minsky Moment

Quote from: Sheilbh on February 11, 2015, 12:48:43 PM
Quote from: Admiral Yi on February 11, 2015, 12:37:35 PM
So Shelf got it wrong about Syriza not looking for a write down.  That makes a lot more sense.
They don't want one in the plans they've released so far.

Sure it's there; they just changed the words used to describe it. 
Because

Quotebecause it's toxic for other Eurozone countries

So you can't call it what it really is.
The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists.
--Joan Robinson

Sheilbh

Obfuscation and fudge! Europe!

As a reminder of Greece's Greeceness, at the confidence vote the KKE leader spent a lot of time damming 'you Keynesian capitalists' :lol:
Let's bomb Russia!

Sheilbh

#641
Of Lagarde Varoufakis photos, I also enjoyed this one where they're either discussing GDP-linked bonds or about to reform the band:


Djisselbloem gave the most awkward of Eurogroup press conferences so far. From Djisselbloem a one minute statement followed by seven minutes of questions with the same answer: no joint conclusions, no plans under discussion. They've made progress, but not enough to agree joint conclusions. Ended the press conference very early. Monday's meeting is the more important one - and, as ever, this is ultimately above their paygrade and will be decided by heads of government - so it may well go to the next Eurogroup meeting. As Moscovici said this is politics not technicalities, so work can't really begin on technical details if there's still no political deal.

The big question is whether the ECB will continue to behave as a central bank, or will, again, become a political actor and force a run on Greece's banks.

Apparently Schaeuble had already left the meeting believing a statement had been agreed when the Greeks, having communicated with Athens, spoke again and effectively vetoed it. There's a European Council meeting tomorrow so there maybe more news from that as Athens vetoed so it's over to Tsipras.

Varoufakis said there were good discussions and it was 'fascinating'. There was never meant to be a deal today. Greece never requested an extension of the bailout and he didn't hear any threats from other members. Many concessions needed to reach a deal but Greece would never stay in the current program because it's been 'catastrophic'. The Telegraph correspondent asked Varoufakis if failure to produce the traditional bullshit statement of Euro-meetings was progress, Varoufakis replied 'well in a sense you are right' :lol:

A big issue seems to be the difference, linguistically, between a 'bridge' and an 'extension' as the Luxembourg FinMin was briefing that the Eurogroup should consider Greek proposals as the current program does allow for 'flexibility'. It has to be said this is the sort of stuff that drive British Eurosceptics mad :lol:

As Peter Spiegel of the FT has put it expectations of tonight were low and they've still managed to miss them.

And a reminder of the various types of official exposure to Greek debt within the Eurogroup:


Edit: There's a fair amount of pushback on the line that there are Greek splits and that they rejected the final statement. Moscovici again talking more sense and the Lithuanian FinMin (seen as a problem) said he thought it impossible for Greece to leave the Euro. In general still a mess though.

Edit: I also feel really sorry for Brussels Correspondents as a rule :(

Edit: The allegedly agreed statement:
QuoteThe (almost) agreed eurogroup statement on Greece
Peter Spiegel   | Feb 12 01:14 | Comment | Share

Wednesday night's breakdown in talks between Greece and the other 18 eurozone finance ministers happened at such the last minute that many of the participants in the eurogroup meeting – including Wolfgang Schäuble, the powerful German finance minster – didn't even know it had happened, since they had already left the building.

According to several officials involved in the talks, Yanis Varoufakis, the Greek finance minister, had agreed to a joint statement with his colleagues, a statement that was even signed off by Greece's deputy prime minister, Yannis Dragasakis, who was also in Brussels for the gathering.

Once agreed, the eurogroup meeting broke up and Schäuble and several of his colleagues headed out the door. But officials said Varoufakis put in one last call back to Athens to inform them what he had just agreed to – and government officials vetoed the statement.

We at Brussels Blog got our hands on the statement and have posted it below. In many senses, it has a little bit for everyone. For eurozone officials, who were pushing Athens hard to request an extension of the current €172bn bailout, which expires at the end of the month, it leaves open the option to "explore the possibilities of extending" the programme.

For Varoufakis, there's even the word "bridge" mentioned in the final paragraph – though not in the sense the Greek minister probably wanted, which is as part of a bridge financing deal.

But the joint statement was not to be. It remains yet another artifact of the long-running Greek drama:
QuoteToday the Eurogroup took stock of the current situation in Greece and the state of the current adjustment programme. In this context, the Eurogroup has engaged in an intensive dialogue with the new Greek authorities.

The Greek authorities have expressed their commitment to a broader and stronger reform process aimed at durably improving growth prospects. At the same time, the Greek authorities reiterated their unequivocal commitment to the financial obligations to all their creditors.

On this basis, we will now start technical work on the further assessment of Greece's reform plans. The Greek authorities have agreed to work closely and constructively with the institutions to explore the possibilities for extending and successfully concluding the present programme taking into account the new government's plans.

If this is successful this will bridge the time for the Greek authorities and the Eurogroup to work on possible new contractual arrangements. We will continue our discussions at our next meeting on Monday 16 February.

And Varoufakis response on Twitter:
Quote@SpiegelPeter @ftbrussels Might I suggest that you refrain from dubious claims based on even more dubious leaks? It's rather unseemly
Let's bomb Russia!

MadImmortalMan

He's got a point. From the beginning of this whole thing years ago it's been nothing but constant dubious leaks at every single stage. I'm pretty convinced at this point that people are making money off of it somehow. Like a buy-leak-sell operation of some sort.

The Fed is pretty careful about what it says, but Europe just whips the markets around with reckless abandon.
"Stability is destabilizing." --Hyman Minsky

"Complacency can be a self-denying prophecy."
"We have nothing to fear but lack of fear itself." --Larry Summers

Sheilbh

#643
Welcome to a currency union of 19 countries with 19 different domestic audiences and sets of interests. And a Commission. And a leaky central bank... :lol:

A currency union of countries beginning with the letter 'm' is more of an optimal currency union than the Eurozone.

Edit: Incidentally not seen the French FinMin's comments before the meeting but this strikes me as interesting 'You know the two principles. First, respect the Greek vote. Second, respect the rules that bind all of us.'
Let's bomb Russia!

Monoriu

I prefer a currency union of all the countries on Earth.  The World's central bank will appear to be an omni-present council of vagueness appointed by the UN, but is actually an AI that resides on the back of the moon and is designed with instruction to reach zero global inflation.